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-   -   MBT's (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45260)

Karagin March 15th, 2022 02:06 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Small idea, what about treating each level of the EW for tanks similar to smoke dischargers?

Right now if you want just close in defense you get 2 and those are popped off by HMGs and other things beyond missiles and main gun rounds. Same for level 3. So what if it was done similar to the smoke dischargers in the game?

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 16th, 2022 03:02 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Leopard 2 TROPHY order.

Mine from February 2021 ...
Ref 1/Para 4
"KMW told Janes on 23 February that it would install the systems on Leopard 2A6M3 tanks through to 2023. A KMW image of the tank after the upgrade (Will be.) designated it as the Leopard 2A7A1."
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...ehr-leopard-2s
(Later in the morning added ref. What happens when you're tired? :o)


Mine from March 2021 ...
Ref 2/Para 1
"The 23 Trophy systems and 586 interceptors that Rafael has agreed to sell to Germany will cost $48 million."

Last Para. Just read it. this is in its "infancy" at this point.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...rd_2_mbts.html

This is an item to be TRACKED with no further action required at this time. You (and Andy both.) have enough "headaches" at this time, with no need to make a migraine headache. :sick:

Didn't know I had a medical degree did you!?! Well I did sleep at a Marriott (Not a Holiday Inn Express guy!) a couple of weeks ago. :p

Bottomline that's the last I heard about TROPHY for LEOPARDS.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 16th, 2022 08:03 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Added that JANE's ref. to last. Tired then and now. Crawling back into the rack. :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 19th, 2022 02:50 AM

Re: MBT's
 
THE FOLLOWING ARE NOT ACTIONABLE!! UPDATE/INFO ONLY!!

A little reverse order filing based on significance both militaria and politically.

ITALY: Keeping them relevant to 2030/35 the C1 ARIETE is currently in trials to determine which or both packages will constitute the final upgrade. From the article...
"Citing information from the "War Thunder" forum, the C1 Ariete AMV program will feature 3 prototypes at first, the AMV PT1, which will feature improvements to the hull, the PT2 which will feature improvements to the turret, and finally the PT3 which will incorporate improvements to both the turret and hull." We are LIKELY to see this.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/weap...ttle_tank.html

BAHRAIN/INDIA: I just posted my thoughts on the within my last two posts. If this gets done, it'll just bolster my prediction for the ARJUN Mk 2 going into service with India. As a reminder, the Indian Army wouldn't compete any version of their T-72 tanks against the ARJUN. And it dominated both the Russian and Indian built T-90S tanks. Leading an Israeli military observer to call/praise the ARJUN after the competition the "Desert Ferrari" Still feel LIKELY to see this, more so if this deal gets done.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...tle_tanks.html

TAIWAN: Looks like this is moving forward. Taiwan is to receive 2 M1A2T tanks stateside in June 2021. These will be used to train the trainers from TAIWAN. These WILL NOT be as good as the as our M1A2 SEP V2 as this article purports it to be. I already know what modifications to make against the M1A2 SEP V2 I submitted a few years back. Delivery According to the Taiwanese Ministry of National Defense, 38 tanks will be delivered in 2024, 42 in 2025, and 28 in 2026.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...tle_tanks.html


WE NEED TO WAIT ON THIS LAST. Who knows what was said yesterday between Biden and Xi? The real question is, what price is to be paid to keep China from supporting Russia in its war with the Ukraine? It's not the first time we've been down this road with tanks for Taiwan. We haven't sent them any in decades.

ALRIGHT...
Last Order from you know who if you follow me...
300 M-60A3 Patton-2 tank Ordered 1996 Delivered 1998-2002 (300) Second-hand; $223 m deal; M-60A3TTS version

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

DRG March 19th, 2022 04:35 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 851853)
BAHRAIN/INDIA: I just posted my thoughts on the within my last two posts. If this gets done, it'll just bolster my prediction for the ARJUN Mk 2 going into service with India. As a reminder, the Indian Army wouldn't compete any version of their T-72 tanks against the ARJUN. And it dominated both the Russian and Indian built T-90S tanks. Leading an Israeli military observer to call/praise the ARJUN after the competition the "Desert Ferrari" Still feel LIKELY to see this, more so if this deal gets done.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...tle_tanks.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


OK.... that link specifically says


Quote:

The main armament of the Arjun Mk II main battle tank consists of a 120mm rifled gun fitted with a thermal sleeve, fume extractor, and a muzzle reference system. The gun is able to fire a full range of ammunitions including FSAPDS (Fin Stabilized Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot), HESH (High-Explosive Squash Head), PCB, TB, and the Israeli Laser Homing Anti-Tank (LAHAT) missile. Laser Homing Attack Missile, or LAHAT, is an advanced missile developed and manufactured by the MBT Division of Israel Aerospace Industries
So........ this long delayed unit should have LAHAT ?

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 19th, 2022 12:20 PM

Re: MBT's
 
That was the original requirement going back to the ARJUN however due to technical issues that didn't happen. The ARJUN Mk1A was also to have an ATGM capability as well. The ARJUN Mk 2
is ready to support an ATGM however whether it'll be the LAHAT or their own is still up for debate. They just last fall completed tests of an ATGM similar to the JAVALIN with a variant of the same, I believe, to begin testing this year if not already.

My bottom-line: We still don't know if we'll see this tank at all, though recent information as posted is more in favor of it happening. But when?

You and I well know Indias overall history of their tank procurement and especially concerning the ARJUN series. I believe the last date change we settled on was sometime late this year I believe.

If it is and to give us some "breathing room", I would at this point, NOT include ATGM and push back the START of the following to DEC 2024 for the following...ARJUN Mk 2, ARMATA (And associated IFV.) and ALTAY for the same reason of breathing room and to deal with all the STILL unresolved issues those projects have yet to get well, resolved.

I'd rather "go long" and be wrong then short and having to keep fixing these START dates that we've been doing for how many years now, for these tanks in particular.

I know you know that I've been watching these tanks for ten years or more and nothing's changed but the dates for various reasons. ;)

Lunch, Shower and Work. The rest of you have a GREAT DAY!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

DRG March 19th, 2022 01:03 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Pat, no matter what we do , no matter how we try to estimate how things will develop it is a drop dead certainty that

1/ someone will disagree and **MAYBE** actually present a good reason why backed up with sources but probably not
2/ Somewhere down the road " reality" will paint a different picture

FWIW both Indian units 21 and 22 now carry 6 LAHAT

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 20th, 2022 03:22 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Don,
Well, I think we can agree we both have made some valid points in our combined last two posts. And I know when the time comes, you'll make the changes as required.

You've never in the past "accused" me of lacking in providing a sufficient number of references on anything I've submitted in the past, especially when it pertains to those submitted more "formally" in my Fastboat Patch Post Thread. Though on rare occasions been informed of the opposite, as in "too many"!?! :D

How could you possibly have too many!?! :rolleyes:

We've lived with it this long, I guess I can keep that up until we're done, I'll ASSUME in the Spring of 2026 with the last patch.

So even now I like to ride a carousal once in a while, something relaxing about it to me, maybe that's a better frame of mind to be while doing this work as my second job as it feels at times. We'll just have to keep reaching for the brass ring to equipment, dates etc. etc. as good as we can get it.

That's what motivated me to do this in the first place, I can't even remember how long ago now, it's just sad to me it's taken a war to get me motivated again though.

It seems I've posted more since JAN then I did all last year.

Long way to say, I CONCUR and THANKS to ANDY and you for doing the HEAVY LIFTING.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 21st, 2022 02:10 AM

Re: MBT's
 
No matter how good your tanks or aren't, if the crews aren't trained and lead properly you will at least in the onset of hostilities pay the price. But I'll leave that to people smarter than me to present that discussion...
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6301297691001#sp=show-clips


Both are worth the time to watch and listen.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Karagin March 21st, 2022 11:14 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 851899)
No matter how good your tanks or aren't, if the crews aren't trained and lead properly you will at least in the onset of hostilities pay the price. But I'll leave that to people smarter than me to present that discussion...
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6301297691001#sp=show-clips


Both are worth the time to watch and listen.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Having been part of a training of Afghanistan Army tankers, yeah...the state of and about how well trained the crews and their support is, yes that is VERY important. I have never seen a group of grown men being unable to grasp simple things like putting fuel in a vehicle or putting the correct fuel into a vehicle. The point I am getting at is many countries do not train their military to any standard beyond looking great during parades. Also, we (the West) need to stop thinking that everyone else trains their military as we do.


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