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-   -   MBT's (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45260)

Suhiir January 25th, 2012 12:47 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Try - To Infinity and Beyond :rolleyes:

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 3rd, 2012 04:19 AM

Re: MBT's
 
As always I bring them to their homes from the Patch Page Thread.

MBT…
By time this gets posted; the following issues are being resolved for all OPLOT units including Thailand’s: 1) Will get the KBA-3 125mm vice the current 120mm L55 Sw01. 2) Thailand will receive the modified Ukrainian UNIT 063 OPLOT with
the NOZH-2 ERA as carried on the OPLOT-M. 3) Thailand’s fielding date will be JAN 2013. 4) This completes the OPLOT package not all was passed via PM. 5) The refs. are for everyone else and is how I've always operated, it’s my standard, and lord knows I've harped about that enough in the forum. So below completes my entries for the 2011/2012 campaign, Patch Post #2...


C4. UKRAINE/OPLOT (T-84)/UNIT 061/CHANGE/120mm L55 Sw01 to the 125mm KBA-3/ERA equal to value of UNIT 062/Start Date to JAN 2000./The only “OPLOT” tanks to carry the 120mm were produced as demonstrators for the Turkish MBT competition
in 2000 though the actual tank was the export version better known as the YATAGAN (KERN2-120) which was designed to meet NATO standards. All OPLOT MBT’s have ERA installed on them. The OPLOT MBT was offered to Greece in 1998 and Malaysia in 2000 with both the YATAGAN and OPLOT offered. Greece went with the Leopard and Malaysia went with a heavily modified PT-91 TARWDY. The OPLOT entered service with the Ukrainian Army in 1999 according to the manufacturer. Seems to be a split with the 1999 date and when it was first seen in 2001 in a military parade in Kiev with the refs available. The Greek tender is well documented which would support the 1999 date. The armor of the OPLOT is multi-layered, with many surfaces having ceramic/steel/aluminum sandwich-type applique armor. A lesser form of this armor is also found on the turret roof and hull floor. The standard ERA is still the Kontakt-5-type ERA of the T-80UD, but the lugs allow for the mounting of virtually any ERA in the former Soviet/Warsaw Pact inventory, as well as allowing for new forms of ERA in the future. The hatches for the commander and gunner are much more armored, and have hydraulic assists to help the crew open and close the now-very heavy hatches. Like the T-80UD, the OPLOT uses both the Varta and Shtora-1 active protection systems, and have the same thermal and radar signature suppression design features.

D3. UKRAINE/OPLOT (T-84)/UNIT O62/DELETE/This MBT does not fit with the refs provided above or below and is redundant to UNITS 061 & 063.

C5. UKRAINE/OPLOT (T-84)/UNIT 063/CHANGE/120mm L55 Sw01 to the 125mm KBA-3/Start Date to JAN 2011/ERA to the level of UNIT 064/By 2010 the decision was made to significantly decrease production of the OPLOT in favor of the OPLOT-M. Further it was decided an easy and inexpensive method to provide an upgrade to the OPLOT was simply to add the NOZH-2 ERA which could be done in the maintenance depots thus not interfering with the OPLOT-M production which would not be fielded until
JUN 2011. Click on first ref. upper left for further system info; note KBA-3 info provided in second ref. and finally evaluation info as described in C4 above. On the last scroll down about 1/2 way.
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84.php
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84armament.php
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84participation.php
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/T-80U.htm


C6. UKRAINE/OPLOT-M/UNIT 064/CHANGE/120mm L55 Sw01 to the
125mm KBA-3/Increase EW to 5 or 6 VICE 2./
The OPLOT-M is considered one of the best protected tanks in the world for the reasons below and should reflect that in the EW rating increase over the above current OPLOT units (EW 4) to which this tank is a much improved version of. The OPLOT-M has an actual ECM system as well as IFF and IRCM system based on their aircraft counterparts; these degrade radar users’ attempts at detection by one level and users of IR-guided weapons by two levels. The ERA of the OPLOT is the more advanced Nozh-2, which protects against both tandem HEAT warheads and provides some protection against AP and KE-type rounds. Machine gun ammunition is somewhat increased over the OPLOT. The OPLOT-M uses the 1200-horsepower turbocharged 6TD-2E, which gets better fuel mileage and emits a much less-obvious exhaust plume with the advantage that it’s faster. The OPLOT-M has a 10kW APU, versus the 8kW APU of the other models of the OPLOT.
* NOTE the KT 12.7 12.7mmMG is a remote operated weapon on all OPLOT versions*
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/oplot_mbt.php
http://www.ukrspecexport.com/index/c...lang/eng/id/42
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/T-80U.htm


A4. THAILAND/ADD/JUN 2012(NOW JAN 2013)/OPLOT (T-84)/USE UKRAINE UNIT 063/Some refs point to the OPLOT-M as being the tank being bought by Thailand, if true I would think it to be a “dumbed” down version since the technology is new and probably proprietary. This is why I think Ukraine UNIT 063 will cover this situation with the side skirts added. Date chosen based on early production rate of ten units per year for OPLOT-M from manufacturer site. This seems reasonable based that the tank is in production as noted and the initial Thai order of 49 tanks is to be completed by DEC 2013.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4221.html
See the following for further information; Post #151 Page 16, Post #169 NEWS Item #4 from MBT section of Patch Post #1 for 2011/2012 submitted in SEP last year.

After my request in C6. from the Patch Page Thread above a little one on one from Don in Armored Vehicle EW 101:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

.........The OPLOT-M is considered one of the best protected tanks in the world for the reasons below and should reflect that in the EW rating increase over the above current OPLOT units (EW 4) to which this tank is a much improved version of.


Pat, you need to spend some time poking around MOBHack.

For tanks there are 4 "EW" settings

EW 1 & 2 = "CIWS" which is the closest and shortest abbreviation we could put in there to indicate active defence systems. EW 1 gives you one active defence measure, EW 2 gives you two.


EW 3 & 4 = "VIRSS" which is the closest and shortest abbreviation we could put in there to indicate passive defense measures like "Visual and Infrared Screening Smoke"

There is nothing above "EW"4 and 1 is not less than four, just different AND ( what follows seems to have confused people in the past so I'll explain it again ) it's a ONE EVENT DEAL so popping a VIRSS cloud ONLY AFFECTS THE INCOMING MISSILE that tripped that event. It does not linger like a normal smoke cloud and it does it that way because that's the only way we could find to bend this code to simulate this.


Quote:
If a vehicle has VIRSS and a ATGM is fired the game runs a routine to determine if the VIRSS was successful in diverting the missile or not for that , and only that, missile. The "smoke" is just an animation so you know that VIRSS has fired. So "VIRSS" in the game is a code routine the game runs when a vehicle equipped with "VIRSS" detects a ATGM launch.

So "EW" 3 gets you one "VIRSS" shot and "EW"4 gets you 2

"EW" 1 gets you one Trophy / Arena type active defense against an incoming missile and "EW" 2 gets you two

There is no EW 5 or 6


Don

You can always learn something new around here, that's I keep coming for regular dose of...:rolleyes:, :mad:, :o, :shock:, :re:, :doh:, :banghead:,
:fire:,:fight: but mostly for all the :cheers:,:party:,,:rock: and finally just to keep my :capt: on things.
I really hate self inflicted wounds!?! Have a good night everyone!

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir February 7th, 2012 04:46 PM

Re: MBT's
 
From various photos (and export data) the T-72M's purchased by Iraq from Russia did not have smoke discharges.

However, apparently the Iraqi upgrade to the "Lion Of Babylon" version added them.

Photo #1
Photo #2

I can't seem to find any data on HOW MANY received this upgrade however.

DRG February 8th, 2012 12:03 AM

Re: MBT's
 
......see anything that indicates now many smoke rounds are fired to obscure the tank when SD are available??


Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 8th, 2012 04:10 AM

Re: MBT's
 
I would think one is the answer. I give you a USA FM ref. again tables 19 and 21 are your focus. Note safety distances for accompanying infantry in combat at 50M and for training at 100M. Browsing the web and going back to the earliest and therefore minimum coverage we're looking at about 30M to ~75 DEPENDENT on grenade type used. Most modern IR/LASER disruption types are ~50M+ as the tables above will indicate as they would release solid and chemical materials that might injure supporting troops again as noted above.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...3-50/appc2.HTM

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir February 8th, 2012 01:53 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 794798)
......see anything that indicates now many smoke rounds are fired to obscure the tank when SD are available??

Don

Nada.
But going off the photos I'd have to say one as well.

Marcello February 8th, 2012 05:49 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 794732)
From various photos (and export data) the T-72M's purchased by Iraq from Russia did not have smoke discharges.

However, apparently the Iraqi upgrade to the "Lion Of Babylon" version added them.

Suhiir, those in the pictures are almost certainly the ex hungarian T-72s Iraq purchased a few years ago, rather than those which were purchased/assembled under Saddam. Neverthless a lot of pre 2003 iraqi T-72s sported smoke dischargers, so mine is just an academic point.
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2...do620if333.jpg
Here is one for example.

In regards to the specific versions. T-72M1 has smoke discharges by default.The T-72M is more murky as some do not have them and some apparently do (if they are in fact M), that's the sort of things manufacturers love to tinker with so it is hard to be 100%sure.
Unfortunately I am not familiar with the operation of the Type 902 series of smoke dischargers used on T-72s, so I have no idea if there are multiple firing options, but salvo fire is the norm with such systems.

Here is for example a description of the M250 smoke grenade launcher (mounted on the Abrams) operations, as can be found here.

Quote:

Pressing one of two push switches in the turret sends an electrical charge to the dischargers. Dischargers are wired to fire grenades from alternate barrels. Pressing one push switch launches a salvo of six grenades (three from each discharger). Pressing both switches launches a salvo of twelve grenades
.

Suhiir February 8th, 2012 09:54 PM

Re: MBT's
 
I brought it up mostly because in the current version of the Iraq OOB none of the T-72 variants have smoke discharges.
Sot it was more of a - Which versions should have them? - question.

DRG February 9th, 2012 10:17 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 794938)
I brought it up mostly because in the current version of the Iraq OOB none of the T-72 variants have smoke discharges.
Sot it was more of a - Which versions should have them? - question.



REALLY ??

Now that is interesting.

What version of the Iraqi OOB are you looking at ?

Please open MOBHack then the Iraqi OOB then I would like you to check each T-72 , including the Iraqi modified variants, and then list for me the unit numbers of every T-72 or variant of the T-72 in the Iraqi OOB that do not have smoke discharger's.

Don

Suhiir February 9th, 2012 08:42 PM

Re: MBT's
 
OK.
I win the STUPID award for the year.

For some unexplainable reason I was looking at the "EW" rating not "Smoke Dischargers" when I was trying to figure out why the AI never seemed to use smoke when I was testing a scenario.

Don ==> Suhiir :crazy: :hammer: :tough: :fish:


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