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-   -   MBT's (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45260)

DRG March 23rd, 2017 02:18 PM

Re: MBT's
 
just curious which ones you are referring to .........the Syrians or the Israelis

scorpio_rocks March 23rd, 2017 09:32 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Oh sorry the Israeli sinai grey stuff.

DRG March 24th, 2017 10:28 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Yes, the experiment worked well. I could not get much closer to that colour using an actual paint sample wash in 24 bit and there are natural variations in that paint colour anyway

scorpio_rocks March 24th, 2017 10:50 AM

Re: MBT's
 
I know that what constitutes and / or approximates the colour is an often hotly debated topic on modelling forums. So to pull it off with the limited palette you have to work with is doubly nice!

DRG March 24th, 2017 02:18 PM

Re: MBT's
 
That colour the Israelis use looks different with age and the conditions it's photographed under but that's nothing compared to the variations in Russian paint colour in WW2. I added a camo M4A2 (76) to the Russian winSPWW2 OOB based on a photo and during research into the colours used I found this

Quote:


Camouflage Colors
In the fall of 1939, the RKKA adopted a system of camouflage colors to be applied over the Protective Green 4BO base coat. Up to two additional colors could be used:

Dark Brown 6K, sometimes denoted as 6RP, was a dark earth brown similar to FS30117.
Yellow Earth 7K was a light sand color close to FS23578.
Both paints were supplied in form of thick paste that was diluted with gasoline, kerosene or a special drying oil. Differences in the dilution medium and/or the mixing proportions caused significant variations in the final colors.

FULL ARTICLE HERE http://www.4bogreen.com/colors

Also, I am finding there are a LOT wider range of colours and tones that can be produced with the game palette than most people think possible

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 30th, 2017 01:49 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Russia has been very busy lately so I'm going to just focus on them here...

1) T-90A (S export version) is being upgraded to the T-90M as noted below
http://www.armyrecognition.com/septe..._21909163.html

2) Following repayment of Russian debt to South Korea in the late 1990's and early 2000's, some of this equipment is going back to Russia. My concern here is are all those ATGW systems in the ROK OOB?
http://www.armyrecognition.com/septe..._11109161.html

3) ARMATA/T-14 items...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/july_..._51907161.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/septe...9161_tass.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/novem..._12711161.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru...s51302171.html


4) The T-72B3 will be the "backbone" of Russian Airborne armored units.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/july_..._10707166.html

5) T-80U very much alive and active.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru...130220171.html

6) Thirty years later and still a frontline tank.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru..._81302171.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi..._10207161.html


7) T-90MS getting A LOT of interest from other than India. Not mentioned below is Kuwait as well. They're involved in the same talks with Saudi Arabia.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...840606161.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...s_2103173.html


A bonus some might find interesting post Cold War almost 15yrs. after it ended.
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...0001066239.pdf

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 31st, 2017 01:28 AM

Re: MBT's
 
I have many sources of info but, I didn't want anyone to think I pulled the T-90MS story (Post above.) about Kuwait's interest in the tank "outta of my butt" so just released earlier yesterday (Wed.) from one of my main stream sources...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march..._12203172.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi..._pictures.html
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90ms_tagil.htm


We entered this tank to the Russian OOB a few years back, as the T-90AM Russian version of the MS. Last two refs. added if any "tweaking" is required before this tank actually sees the "light of day" most likely for India first as they have already signed a contract for if I remember correctly was for 248/9 T-90MS units. But I believe it's still good though honestly it's been about 2 or 3 years since I've looked at it.

I just checked the OOB and I see it's UNIT 059 listed as the MS version which would be incorrect. Also unsupported reports claim Russia is operating a "few" unspecified number of T-90AM tanks (Big difference here is it uses a 20mm secondary weapon.) and the intention is to start building them in 2020. This is very sketchy at this point.

It's good to have sources! ;) And I'll never reveal all of them-sorry-OK not really!?! :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 31st, 2017 02:41 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Ran out of edit time but for clarification...I had believed we originally entered the T-90AM based on some information we had at the time, which to use the same phraseology as in my last, was "very sketchy" and we kept the tank "ready to go" but not available as I always described them as a 999 UNIT.

If I may suggest the following...
A) Inactivate UNIT 059 and keep it as the build model for the export version T-90MS (SM as sometimes referred to.) until one of those countries actually gets them.

B) Once delivered to the first customer as shown currently or "tweaked" if needed, change UNIT 059 to the T-90AM version as discussed and again in an inactive status until Russia fields it fully as is now planned.

Again the tank is NOT active in any OOB in this game currently. A deal with KAZAKHSTAN fell through about 4yrs. ago.

Russian T-90AM (About as good as there is for now.)...
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/mo...a/T-90_MBT.php
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm
https://southfront.org/russia-milita...f-three-tanks/


Regards,
Pat
:capt:

DRG March 31st, 2017 06:51 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 838030)
Ran out of edit time but for clarification...I had believed we originally entered the T-90AM based on some information we had at the time, which to use the same phraseology as in my last, was "very sketchy" and we kept the tank "ready to go" but not available as I always described them as a 999 UNIT.

If I may suggest the following...
A) Inactivate UNIT 059 and keep it as the build model for the export version T-90MS (SM as sometimes referred to.) until one of those countries actually gets them.

B) Once delivered to the first customer as shown currently or "tweaked" if needed, change UNIT 059 to the T-90AM version as discussed and again in an inactive status until Russia fields it fully as is now planned.

Again the tank is NOT active in any OOB in this game currently. A deal with KAZAKHSTAN fell through about 4yrs. ago.

Russian T-90AM (About as good as there is for now.)...
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/mo...a/T-90_MBT.php
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm
https://southfront.org/russia-milita...f-three-tanks/


Regards,
Pat
:capt:

It's is " active " currently in the Indian OOB and was put in a couple years back on speculation it would be in service..... I get bit all the time with stuff like this and it's time I listened to my own advice and NOT ENTER ANYTHING UNTIL ITS ACTUALLY IN SERVICE...so I have little use for any info about " what might be sold to whoever" at all

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 2nd, 2017 01:07 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Well I felt kind've bad about the last post by Don. History has shown that at times equipment I've "reported on" has made it into this game without myself actually having had submitted it to Don. As noted in the past many times and speaking ONLY for myself, our arrangement has been simply if there's strong evidence to support it we'll work within a six month "swag' of the expected fielding date based mostly on including the training/certification of the crews for that piece of equipment as I've recently posted in this thread on the U.S. Army training for the Abrams in response to a question from Don. You don't automatically field a unit without training first unless in time of war and the game does this (Or did.) when you upgraded tank Y for tank Z IN YOUR CORE UNITS WITH THE EXISTING CREW, you took a small hit in the crews experience level.

This will be the case when India does get and operate the T-90MS. They have very experienced crews that have operated the T-90S for a very long time now and as a reminder they've licensed built the same also for a very long time.

Status thus far for India is the contract has been signed since last November 2016 as also reported by SIPRI they also confirm reports from the web that the deal is worth just over 2 Billion U.S. for 464 units of the T-90MS. India's MOD is pushing hard to get 64 units directly from Russia for immediate deployment to the Pakistani border as there have been several border clashes involving the killing of Indian soldiers at the border. Well Russia has to build them first. No status of delivery of those tanks yet. I can confirm none were delivered by the end of 2016. You should know I'll be watching for developments. My best guess would be around Oct. 2017 earliest.

To my opening section for now on when I post in any of "my" threads you will see as the lead one of or both of the following "tag lines" FYI and Fielded anything under those "tags lines" well means just that and NOTHING ELSE.

Don my apologies if something I posted lead you to entering the tank in India's OOB.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


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