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FASTBOAT TOUGH November 8th, 2010 09:21 PM

The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Hello!
The Mission Statement:
I've discussed this and wanted to submit my next patch suggestions etc. on a separate thread because I've gone from maintaining 3 or 4 threads last year to 9 or 10 threads currently. By putting all this on one thread I hope to make it easier for those directly involved in putting together the patches only one place to look since, it turns out I will be providing information dealing with all threads started by me to date. I respectfully request of all others to please not too comment here, I will later cut and paste or copy these items into their appropriate threads for such purposes. Basic principles that will guide me through this process are as follows:

1. I will maintain the agreed upon format from last year for new equipment only, i.e. USA/1968/M551 Sheridan/C4/152mm (20Rs), MGM-51 Shillelagh (9), AA 12.7mm (1KRs) & 7.62mm (3KRs). Some older equipment that I think should be added due to earlier omissions will be in this format as well.

2. Due to the economic situation around the world, we've seen many significant modifications to existing equipment some of which will be designated as different models of existing tanks etc., so to save time I'll be using the following terms and will provide an example of one such.
A. As in the game. Simply this covers everything after the name as shown above. Any addition to this will be noted in bold.
B. Mod(s) needed per refs above existing NAME levels (For that countries unit). I'll provide quick notes and let the refs do the talking.
C.RESET. Is the same as a "zero mile" refit to an existing vehicle etc., where it's been completely stripped down to the hull then completely rebuilt, the Turkish/Israeli program to update 170 of Turkeys M60A1 tanks to the M60T is a prime example of this. An exception to this I have is the LEOPARD 2 A7+ which is being built new now with the previous version the LEOPARD 2 A6 to be brought to this standard as they go into major depot overhauls. To reflect the above:
INDIA/Jan 2012/ARJUN MKII/As in the game, ADD LAHAT x 10/Mods needed per refs above ARJUN levels.

3. ADD. As it says for new or revised equipment.

4. CHANGE. Primarily looking at date issues here as I've got several of these but can cross over to other areas based on "hard" refs.

5. DELETE. Never had it or got it due to financial or program delays/or cuts again supported by refs.

6. MOD. This is a very general area where a) A general name change for equipment w/explanation. b) I might not have enough or have less reliable refs. to support adding or changing equipment. c) As I'm not a technical expert in converting this info into game info, such as the USMC M60A1 RISE ERA the Icon shows the ERA wrapped around the turret and hull which is correct to the pictures online however, the "points" were only increased on the frontal turret "lobe" the rest has the same armor points as the non ERA protected version. I ask for your patience in these matters they'll be more in the vain of "curiosity" then "questioning" the information.

7. I will use previous posts to support the info as well such as APC Post #12 at the end of each item as needed.

8. If additional info is needed please ask for it such as MBT 1 or MBT 6 and what you require. I'll do my best to get what you need. And if anyone else has any issues please use the same format in the appropriate thread.

Well I was always taught to have a mission statement, it informs every one of your goals and focus and hopefully keeps you on track as well. I’ll do the best I can with what I have and hope I have not created extra work due to missing items while "combing" the game to avoid that issue. Please let me know if this is better for those involved, for everyone else thanks for your support and patience.

Regards,
Pat

DRG November 10th, 2010 08:34 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 762340)
As I'm not a technical expert in converting this info into game info, such as the USMC M60A1 RISE ERA the Icon shows the ERA wrapped around the turret and hull which is correct to the pictures online however, the "points" were only increased on the frontal turret "lobe" the rest has the same armor points as the non ERA protected version.
Regards,
Pat



USMC Unit 608 ( M60A1 RISE-ERA ) has 4 reactive all around the turret

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 15th, 2010 01:11 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
5 Attachment(s)
First installment for the 2011 patch. If no end date is given assume 2020 for current game.
MBTs
Add:
A1. USA/JUN 2010/M1A1 SA/ED/RESET/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing M1A1 ABRAM levels. Improved electronics and sensors, improved armor against IEDs and mines and can be in theater upgraded with the urban TUSK pkg. Recommend base and mirror unit w/TUSK up armor pkg.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...a-tanks-02535/
http://www.army.mil/-news/2009/03/05...t-at-anniston/


A2. IRAQ/DEC 2010/M1A1 SA/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing M1A1 ABRAM levels. As above w/o the advanced ERA pkg. and BFT program.
Recommend base and mirror unit w/TUSK up armor pkg.
Please note these refs to include some bleed over info to both types.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...013/#more-5013
http://www.usf-iraq.com/?option=com_...684&Itemid=128
http://www.dapss.com/mpi-news/0709/0709C-iraq.htm
http://www.stripes.com/news/u-s-tank...i-army-1.89069
http://www.deagel.com/Main-Battle-Ta...000516002.aspx


C1. Change: IRAQ/M1A1M to M1A1 SA per refs. above.

A3. USA/JAN 1977 – DEC 1986/M60A1 RISE Passive/C4/RB 105mm L51 M68 w/63 Rds, M240 7.62mm w/5.9 Rds & M85 12.7mm w/900 Rds.The USA developed the ERA packages late in the life of this tank but, never to be used them. The development of the M60A3, M60A3 TTS and the dawn of the M1 stopped this. The USMC actually got them from the USA stocks during Desert Shield prior to combat operations. RISE Passive was the pinnacle of the M60A1 MBT.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ound/m60a1.htm
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M60.html
Post #73.

Pics:
Attachment 10616

A4. TURKEY/JUN 1991 or JAN 1994/M60A1 RISE Passive/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing M60A1 RISE Passive levels, with ERA. These are the USMC tanks that were donated to Turkey. The confusion in the dates comes from the net, I found a document that I couldn't recover that showed Congress did not approve the release of the more advanced M60 series tanks for export until 1993. I will attempt to recover this if possible, for now, I can only say I saw it. I feel the JAN 1994 date is best for all foreign M60 advanced tanks (M60A1 RISE Passive and M60A3 TTS). From what I can tell Turkey is the only country to have recieved the M60A1 RISE Passive tank, all other U.S. serviceable units were upgraded to the M60A3 & TTS versions when these became available to the USA. NOTE: ALL M60 series tanks are still in service with the Turkish army. If not change of end dates are required to 2020. See M60T below refs to support this if needed.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ar...hp/t-2324.html
http://www.turkishworld.multiservers.com/equipment.html
http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/...e_Turkish_Army


C2. Change: USA (If added.), USMC & TURKISH (If added.)/M60A1 RISE to M60A1 RISE Passive or just M60A1 Passive based on Posts #73 and #74 to avoid confusion and identify the most important mod to the M60A1.

A5. CANADA/NOV 2010/LEOPARD 2A4M CAN/RESET/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing LEOPARD 2A4 levels.
The improvements are primarily in all around armor protection against IEDs and mines. And some sensor upgrades. Don't know but is the thermal site on the turret pictured below on the frontal view new as well?
http://www.kmweg.de/2922-YWt0X3BhZ2U...ws_detail.html
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18620/
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/id...1018_1_n.shtml
http://communities.canada.com/ottawa...ghanistan.aspx

Pics:
Attachment 10617 Attachment 10618

A6. GERMANY/JAN 2011/LEOPARD 2A7+/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing LEOPARD 2A6 levels. The improvements are primarily in all around armor protection against IEDs and mines, sensors, remote operated secondary weapons station and munitions.
http://www.kmweg.de/21874-bD1lbg-~PR...opard_pso.html
http://www.kmweg.de/2922-YWt0X3BhZ2U...ws_detail.html

A more detailed account use page advance for both above. Note links to left for LEOPARD 2A4M CAN and DINGO 2 purchase for later post. Also German LEOPARD 2A6 tanks will be RESET to this standard during major depot maintenance. Also provides update to countries such as Netherlands having updated all their A5's to A6 levels.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm
A very good site I believe from someone who is a member of our forum. Also addresses upgrades of these tanks i.e. 2A4 to 2A5 from other countries, has this issue (For the longer term.) been looked into for the game?
Post #60 Should provide a working basis for the German multi-purpose munition as well off those videos. The video on the left if I remember goes into more detail on the IDF APAM-T M1171 round.
Pic:
Attachment 10619 Attachment 10620

A7. INDIA/JAN 2012/ARJUN MK II/As in the game with LAHAT. Mods needed per refs above existing ARJUN levels. Will have LAHAT ATGM, added two tons of additional armor of a hybrid ceramic type also will add next gen ERA to the turret, auto loader and improved sensors and electronics.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...984/#more-4984
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Sec...4101274452185/
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-F...rmy-Orbat.html
Official Army website, might be of some interest though it looks like it hasn't been updated in several months.

M1. Mod: INDIA/MAY 2009/ARJUN MK1/As in the game with LAHAT and date change as indicated. Mods needed per refs above existing ARJUN levels. Of LAHAT and date change there is no doubt, however as I stated in my "mission statement" I'm no expert in converting raw data into game data and just have to rely on my instincts of what I'm reading. With that in mind, I believe the ARJUN might deserve another look based upon the above refs and previous posts provided below. TI/GSR looks good at 40, just not sure of armor or FC based on the refs and the way it outperformed the T-90S in every category. When I read that the armor is similar to the venerable Challenger 2, the wheels start turning in a novice like me. NOTE: All ARJUN MK1 tanks will be upgraded to the MKII standard during major depot maintenance and I would not think much before mid to late 2013 as the current order of the 124 MK11 tanks starts winding down, will track this.
Posts: #9, #19, #36, #75 and #76 some bleed over (#75L) for MKII as well.

M2. Mod: TURKEY/JAN 2007 - DEC 2009/M60T/RESET/As in the game with 60mm mortar 15 to 25 RDs and date change as indicated. Net conflicts here based on rounds carried on MERKAVA 4 and SABRA. They are for all tanks here internally mounted and tied into both sensor and FC for suppression (or elimination ) of ATGM teams, snipers and infantry.
TURKEY/JAN 2010/M60T/RESET/As in the game with LAHAT 6 - 10 RDs and date change as indicated. Mods needed per refs above existing M60A3 IMI ST levels as currently named in the game. Though the TI/GSR is less then the MERKAVA 4 but supposedly has the same FC unit installed is of a lesser issue than I believe it's armor ICON defense numbers. Most of these references presented or already posted refer back to having many of the systems of the MERKAVA 4 installed such as FC, sensor and other electronic upgrades, weapons and armor (My focus is on the frontal turret and hull area.). The source will illustrate this reasonably well, it's the IMI press release on delivery of the last M60T to Turkeys MOD. Please the note the close up shot of the M60T, that armor looks the same as on the MERKAVA 4. I just feel it deserves another look is all. LAHAT again net conjecture go low or go mid would be my guess high might be advertising.
http://www.imi-israel.com/vault/docu...d%20m-60a1.pdf
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ar...hp/t-2324.html
Posts: #15, #17, #25, #66 and #71.


C3. Change: TURKEY/M60A3 IMI ST to M60T per refs and posts above.

C4. Change: TURKEY/End Date to JUN 2009/M60A1/ As in the game. Mods needed per refs above for M60T. I feel this a good approximate time that the last of the Turkish M60A1 tanks would have had to start the RESET process to the M60T.

C5. Change: TURKEY/End Dates to DEC 2020 as needed./M60 series/ As in the game. Mods needed per A4, M2 and C3 their refs above if not already done.

M3. Mod: TURKEY/JUN 2008 - DEC 2020./LEOPARD A1T and A4T UPGRADE/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above LEOPARD A1T & A4. Rough guess on the start field date, upgrade was completed in NOV 2009. I've also seen some blog information to suggust the A1T recieved some armor upgrades as well, it makes sense considering the investment in this system, however unless I missed it I can't provide you with anything concrete. Your call on the armor.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...59&c=EUR&s=LAN
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/projects/...d1A1A1A4T.aspx
http://www.aselsan.com.tr/urun.asp?urun_id=79&lang=en

C6. Change: TURKEY/ End Dates to DEC 2020 as needed./LEOPARD series up to and including A4T/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above LEOPARD A1T. The LEOPARD A1 T is the first version purchased by Turkey and just completed a major overhaul of it's FC and associated systems in NOV 2009.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ar...hp/t-2324.html
http://www.turkishworld.multiservers.com/equipment.html


M4. Mod: Israel/2010/MERKAVA 4b/As in the game with TROPHY system 6-10 shots. Mods needed per refs above MERKAVA 4b . These sources would lead you to believe it has an even newer version of hybrid armor. This is one reason I didn't also use the armor request for the M60T to be compared to the 4b. What's not in doubt is that the first IDF Battalion to operate with the improved MERKAVA did so about two weeks ago with the TROPHY system installed. TROPHY shots again net conjecture go low or go mid would be my guess high might be advertising. This close in protection system might be hard to model in the game but, have brought this up with John (Imp) and thought that VIRSS as the game uses it might be a short term solution to getting it in the game. The troop carrying issue well that's been discussed to great length the only option is a heavy APC carry 6 so more ammo is available. Your call.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/merkava4/
http://www.defense-update.com/newsca...kava.html#more
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18649/ MERKAVA 4 w/TROPHY exercise.
http://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/merkava.htm#topPage
http://www.janes.com/events/exhibiti...aks-cove.shtml
Posts: #45, #60 (With video fm "Future Weapons show.), #61, #62 and #65. Troop issue #52 and #56.

Pics:

C7. Change: TURKEY/2012 to 2015/BLACK PANTHER to ALTAY/As in the game. Many of the refs for the M60T make mention of some of the issues and delays in the ALTAY MBT program. Best estimates are that the ALTAY prototypes will be ready by 2013 and barring any major teething problems fielded by 2015. Picture is good as compared to current 3D renderings on the net for the ALTAY.

C8. Change: USA/Dates as follows for all types of Sheridan's/As in the game. Mods of dates needed per refs for SHERIDAN all types.
A. M551/JAN 1968 to JAN 1977/ Base model.
B. M551 TWO BOX (M551 CS in the game.)/JAN 1969 - JAN 1977/Modified for operations in Vietnam. Kit installed for turret and weapons stabilization after removing missile components (Except pwr. sup. & rate sensor.) w/no missiles. These modifications allowed for the increase of 152mm FLECETTE rounds and MG ammo stowage. This end date (Otherwise 1975 your choice.) allows for 2yr. overlap in conversion to;
C. M551A1/JAN 1975 - DEC 1988/This added the ANVVG-1 LRF (Some indicate ANNVG-1 LFR.) For info and clarification before I move on you need to know the following: In FY 1980 The SHERIDAN was phased out by the regular ARMY. In FEB 1984 the Arkansas NG retires the SHERIDAN, it would be the only NG unit to have used them. However the 82nd AB Div. (AIRBORNE, ALL THE WAY!! for those who served.) convinced the ARMY to keep them which they did.
D. ADD/M551A1 TTS/JAN 1989 - JULY 1997/UPGRADED with the
ANVSG-2B TTS (Some indicate ANNSG-2B TTS.) These tanks again saw combat in Panama and Desert Storm with a better combat reputation then it had in Vietnam with the 3-73 Armor Batt. of the 82nd AB Div., in JULY 1997 they were finally retired to be used at NTC CA.
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M551.html
http://www.82armor.com/82nd_armor.htm
This source was leaned on more because I'll go with the men and woman who've served and used the actual gear every time if the info can be corroborated with others.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ound/m60a3.htm Same system as on M551A1 TTS.
Post: #7


D1. DELETE: TURKEY/M1A2T FNSS/Due to political reasons this was DOA. Current ref. shows who has what in the ABRAMS foreign market.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/

D2. DELETE: TURKEY/T-84 YATAGAN/Though it was one of four tanks tendered, Turkey went with the LEOPARD 2A4. The YATAGAN has only been exported to one country, Pakistan.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t84.htm
TRANSFER (?) to Pakistan, I'm a little tired right now but went back to check and didn't see it there unless I just forgot the Pakistani name for it.

D3. DELETE: INDIA/MBT-EX KARNA/Meant for export but DOA when ARJUN was delayed.
http://frontierindia.net/tank-ex-ideal-t-72-upgrades

I think this might be the worst of it, I hope! If again any additional info is needed please again ask by the numbers. All seems in order and I really hate rabbit holes now!?!

Regards,
Pat

thatguy96 November 15th, 2010 01:50 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 762999)
B. M551 TWO BOX (M551 CS in the game.)/JAN 1969 - JAN 1977/Modified for operations in Vietnam. Kit installed for turret and weapons stabilization after removing missile components (Except pwr. sup. & rate sensor.) w/no missiles. These modifications allowed for the increase of 152mm FLECETTE rounds and MG ammo stowage. This end date (Otherwise 1975 your choice.) allows for 2yr. overlap in conversion to;

The Technical Bulletin for the "Special Configuration" is dated May 1969, and a change was made in September 1969 to add in armor to the vehicle's underbelly to help protect against mines. I also wouldn't have though there would have been any M551s in Vietnam after the pullout of major ground forces, especially as none were turned over to the ARVN. I would suggest these vehicles were demodified as soon as they returned to the States or where ever else they were headed, though I really can't quickly find anything to back that up.

This source also states that the M551 was still being "washed out" of the majority of the active Army in 1978 and into 1979.

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 15th, 2010 01:59 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
5 Attachment(s)
For the previous post additional Pics:
Attachment 10623 LEOPARD 2A7+ Remote weapons station.
Attachment 10624 USMC M60A1 RISE Passive as donated to Turkey.
Attachment 10625 Turkish M60A1 converted to the M60T like the difference between night and day.
Attachment 10621 This discussion was almost as bad as the "CM Arty" thing but, it needs addressing though to some extent.
Attachment 10622 It is a beautiful machine and it can carrying luggage or camping gear for those long trips.

Gentlemen please let me know when it's safe for me to delete the refs used in the previous post from my favorites list. It'll save me time and keep me organized for the next push. Many thanks!!

I've pushed the "social network" theme to the limit somewhat this week and today in particular so I'll just say good night!?!
No worries all's good!! To all have a great week!!!!

Regards,
Pat

P.S.
Understand I'm a little tired here and I do appreciate the additional info but, PLEASE READ POST #1!! THANK YOU!

DRG November 15th, 2010 09:33 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Gentlemen please let me know when it's safe for me to delete the refs used in the previous post from my favorites list. It'll save me time and keep me organized for the next push. Many thanks!!
I'm not sure what you mean here. If the reference links are posted on the forum why would you need a backup in your favourites list ?

A couple of things though........ as much as complete information is nice to have anything that has "improvements are primarily in all around armor protection against IEDs and mines" has no change in game terms as either something is a MRV or not as we cannot set it up as "slightly more mine resistant" so any armour improvements in that regard on existing vehicles means nothing in game terms beyond *maybe* an increase in the survival number but 6 is the limit

You have waded though considerable amounts of information to get these summaries but now I have to wade though the summaries. Yesterday I worked through four pages of notes on the to do list submitted by various people and that consumed 6 hours. That used to be a "normal" day for me working on the game. Unfortunately I don't have that luxury this year for a number of reason I won't go into beyond it involves a close elderly relative in hospital but in some cases just figuring out what people want me to change takes all the time I have available to work in a given day.

The bottom line is I will endevour to address these issues as time permits but there will be times I'm going ask you WTF this or that means or just skip it if I'm pressed for time

Don

P.S.... Knowing the game unit numbers speeds things up considerably

DRG November 15th, 2010 09:51 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

TRANSFER (?) to Pakistan, I'm a little tired right now but went back to check and didn't see it there unless I just forgot the Pakistani name for it.
There is no t-84 in the Pakistani OOB and so far the only info I have found is 320 were contracted to be sold to them and other source says " Not T-84 Pakistan dosen't have it"

so I'll just hold off on this until less conflicting info is found

Don

DRG November 15th, 2010 10:03 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Understand I'm a little tired here and I do appreciate the additional info but, PLEASE READ POST #1!! THANK YOU!
Yeah, I read post #1 and I don't have time to send PM's. This is the only thread you need to post changes to this next patch and from time to time, as noted, there is a good possibility there will be questions. Marcello's Iraqi thread is a good example of how that works successfully

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 15th, 2010 04:07 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Open to all for this question!
Alright before CINCLANTHOME gets back, this unit number thing, I've looked and obviously am missing it! So I open the game, go to the encyclopedia, click on USA, click on M1A1 and it brings it up, now what? Is it the Icon number? This is to help Don and Andy especially in the areas of CHANGE or MOD to a particular unit. Might have at least two more pages the length of the last. No response please from Don and Andy you have other things to do!!
Thanks for your help!! Please by steps after all I are bubblehead! I think I hear footsteps, gotta go!!!!

Thanks Again!!!
Regards,
Pat

AMX November 15th, 2010 05:03 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 763061)
Open to all for this question!
Alright before CINCLANTHOME gets back, this unit number thing, I've looked and obviously am missing it! So I open the game, go to the encyclopedia, click on USA, click on M1A1 and it brings it up, now what? Is it the Icon number? This is to help Don and Andy especially in the areas of CHANGE or MOD to a particular unit. Might have at least two more pages the length of the last. No response please from Don and Andy you have other things to do!!
Thanks for your help!! Please by steps after all I are bubblehead! I think I hear footsteps, gotta go!!!!

Thanks Again!!!
Regards,
Pat

First, in the game launcher (not the actual game), go to the "Misc" tab, and set the option "Show ID Numbers" to "Yes"

Then, start the game, and run the scenario editor (ID numbers don't show in the encyclopedia).

Note that every unit (and every formation, for that matter) has a number in front of its name now.

DRG November 15th, 2010 05:12 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
This is going to be a two part answer and question

First. There are no unit numbers listed in the encyclopedia anywhere. You can see unit numbers when purchasing *IF* you have "Show ID Numbers" = YES found in the Game Options screen under the MISC tab. If that is set to yes you will see formation numbers to the left of the formations of the purchase menu and to the left of the units after you select a formation you want. As I recal that is set to NO as default. For obvious reason I have it on all the time. "Normal" players rarely need to know that info.

The very, very best way to get the info I need to eliminate the guesswork about which unit people my be refering to is by using MOBHack. I assume ( yes... we all know what ASSUME stands for.....) that anyone working with OOB issues would be using MOBHack not the game as there are all kinds of ways to find and change things quickly built into MOBHack. So that brings me to the second part of this post

You say at the very start.....

Quote:

A1. USA/JUN 2010/M1A1 SA/ED/RESET/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing M1A1 ABRAM levels. Improved electronics and sensors, improved armor against IEDs and mines and can be in theater upgraded with the urban TUSK pkg. Recommend base and mirror unit w/TUSK up armor pkg.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...a-tanks-02535/
http://www.army.mil/-news/2009/03/05...t-at-anniston/
OK....... in the USA OOB in the game there are 5 M1A1's still in service in 2010. Two are MCBS and I'm not concerned with those. That leaves three and all are already upgrades above a "standard" M1A1

#484 = M1A1HA+ Abrams ( a standard MBT )
#636 = M1A1 AIM ( National Guard formations )
#650 = M1A1HA+ Abrams ( CS )

#484 is already up to M1A2 standards so I don't know what mods I should make to "Mods needed per refs above existing M1A1 ABRAM levels " unless the M1A1's have been upgrade to M1A2 SEP levels and if that's the case the M1A2 SEP is right there in the game.

Don

DRG November 15th, 2010 07:17 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Here's another one

Quote:

A3. USA/JAN 1977 – DEC 1986/M60A1 RISE Passive/C4/RB 105mm L51 M68 w/63 Rds, M240 7.62mm w/5.9 Rds & M85 12.7mm w/900 Rds.The USA developed the ERA packages late in the life of this tank but, never to be used them. The development of the M60A3, M60A3 TTS and the dawn of the M1 stopped this. The USMC actually got them from the USA stocks during Desert Shield prior to combat operations. RISE Passive was the pinnacle of the M60A1 MBT.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ound/m60a1.htm
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M60.html
Post #73.
How would a M60A1 RISE Passive in game terms differ in any significant way than a M60A3 Patton ( USA unit #19 ) ?

Compare this to the USMC M60A1 Rise <Passive> ( USMC unit #19 by total coincidence ).

Aside from the one point stabilizer difference and the one point difference in cost ? Could it be that these A3's are suppose to be A1 RISE and the TTS is the only real A3as seems to be suggested here http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ound/m60a3.htm

???

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 15th, 2010 09:47 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
To the M1A1 SA/ED & Iraqi SA, thank god I didn't delete my refs yet as I think I missed one to put in. I saw some mention of an advanced
M1A1 tank to be designated M1A1M. It appears that the M1A1 SA/ED (SA) is the bridge to that tank. Please refer to I believe A2 ref 1 and I think it was 3. The M1A1M is not the M1A1 AIM as this is treated separately in this ref I believe I forgot to supply. It seems the three differences I see from other M1A1 tanks is;
1. New advanced FLIR sight (Possible increase to TI/GSR in line w/MERKAVA 4?).
2. New advanced Driver THERMAL sight, game enhancement I don't know unless it helps w/target acquisition somehow.
3. New Commanders target/weapons stabilization system. This sounds like a plus to FC?
This ref, about mid way down, right side has a M1A1 SA drawing you can click on to show the enhancements at a glance. SA/ED adds blue force locator and another electronic enhancement that I can't remember at the moment but is given I think in the first ref to cover the USA M1A1 SA/ED.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/ Look to para next to gunners station picture to right side.
We've touched on this no new tanks means too many variations of existing ones. I assure everyone it'll be my mission to cut out the crap (Can I say that? Well I guess I did!) in these countries to make room. Hope this helped some.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 15th, 2010 10:01 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
Submitted the US Army M60A1 RISE/Passive only because I saw it as an omission. That tank represented the pinnacle of the M60A1 series. Just filling the gap between the M60A1 to M60A3 tanks for the US Army. I'd rather trade an "extra" variation of the
M60A1 by deletion to get this one in because it's vision would be better than any M60A1.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 15th, 2010 11:13 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
Here's a quick possible solution for the M60A1 issue to get the RISE/Passive in. I used the USA encyclopedia page 1, there are two M60A1 tanks on that page with the following info.
1. JAN 1962 - DEC 1973 HE 18, AP 0, SABOT 20 and HEAT 25.

2. JAN 1974 - DEC 1984 HE 18, AP 0, SABOT 25 and HEAT 20.

If ammo load-out is the only issue here that I can see at a quick look and all other factors are the same, then why not just have one M60A1 JAN 1962 - DEC 1984 with the ammo load-out as desired, though latter from above would be best against the Warsaw Pact tank heavy units of the day. Is this a possible area of economy in the game to open further slots? Already looking in the 2nd or 3rd (If needed.) post to recommend deletions (About 10) for the U.S. alone.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Pat

DRG November 16th, 2010 09:09 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 763105)
Don,
Here's a quick possible solution for the M60A1 issue to get the RISE/Passive in. I used the USA encyclopedia page 1, there are two M60A1 tanks on that page with the following info.
1. JAN 1962 - DEC 1973 HE 18, AP 0, SABOT 20 and HEAT 25.

2. JAN 1974 - DEC 1984 HE 18, AP 0, SABOT 25 and HEAT 20.

If ammo load-out is the only issue here that I can see at a quick look and all other factors are the same, then why not just have one M60A1 JAN 1962 - DEC 1984 with the ammo load-out as desired, though latter from above would be best against the Warsaw Pact tank heavy units of the day. Is this a possible area of economy in the game to open further slots? Already looking in the 2nd or 3rd (If needed.) post to recommend deletions (About 10) for the U.S. alone.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Pat


Pat..... You REALLY ( really ..) have to start working with MOBHack and using that as references. I really ( really ..) do not have time to stop what I'm doing, open the game, go to the encyclopaedia, guess which items you are referring to ......( because if you have the CD version to the game, and I hope you do, there are a dozen different way to filter the entries and I can only ASSUME which way you are doing it ).....then open up MOBHack and try to find them. ( really.....). Looking through the encyclopaedia for information to make corrections that will ultimately be made in MOBHack just does not cut it

However, in this case those two units ( units 16 and 18 in the US OOB.... I think ! ) have a GUN upgrade not just rearranging the ammo ( weapons 95 and 96 ) that increases Sabot Pen by 5 and sabot range by 10 which has the effect of increasing sabot pen further at closer ranges so neither of those units can , should, or will be deleted.

Don

DRG November 16th, 2010 10:02 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 763101)
Don,
Submitted the US Army M60A1 RISE/Passive only because I saw it as an omission. That tank represented the pinnacle of the M60A1 series. Just filling the gap between the M60A1 to M60A3 tanks for the US Army. I'd rather trade an "extra" variation of the
M60A1 by deletion to get this one in because it's vision would be better than any M60A1.

Regards,
Pat

Pat, here's where a bit of time with MOBHack would clarify how things are done and why this wasn't included in the US OOB

You want the RISE Passive in the game from 1977 to the end of 1986. However, "game reality" intrudes on real reality.

There is a gun upgrade ( ammo really but that's the way the game works.....we upgrade the whole gun ) in the game in 1978. It is not practical to add a unit for one year with the older gun simply because we are running out of slots in the USA OOB and in 1979 the M60A3 enters service which gives better FC and a better gun stabilizer. So , to be practical about it we could add the RISE passive in 1978 with the ammo/gun upgrade and leave it in service until 1984 ( when the next gun ammo upgrade occurs) but it would only be a really useful upgrade for one year.....1978.

In a perfect world where I would have unlimited unit slots available I would add your RISE Passive in 1977 with the older ammo then add another one in 1978 with the newer one but the game reality is there are only 36 empty slots left in the USA OOB and using up one or two for tank that only gives a small FC and stabilizer increase for a very shot period of time isn't really pactical

Don

DRG November 16th, 2010 12:36 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 762999)
A5. CANADA/NOV 2010/LEOPARD 2A4M CAN/RESET/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing LEOPARD 2A4 levels.
The improvements are primarily in all around armor protection against IEDs and mines. And some sensor upgrades. Don't know but is the thermal site on the turret pictured below on the frontal view new as well?
http://www.kmweg.de/2922-YWt0X3BhZ2U...ws_detail.html
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18620/
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/id...1018_1_n.shtml
http://communities.canada.com/ottawa...ghanistan.aspx

Pics:
Attachment 10617 Attachment 10618

M3. Mod: TURKEY/JUN 2008 - DEC 2020./LEOPARD A1T and A4T UPGRADE/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above LEOPARD A1T & A4. Rough guess on the start field date, upgrade was completed in NOV 2009. I've also seen some blog information to suggust the A1T recieved some armor upgrades as well, it makes sense considering the investment in this system, however unless I missed it I can't provide you with anything concrete. Your call on the armor.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...59&c=EUR&s=LAN
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/projects/...d1A1A1A4T.aspx
http://www.aselsan.com.tr/urun.asp?urun_id=79&lang=en

C6. Change: TURKEY/ End Dates to DEC 2020 as needed./LEOPARD series up to and including A4T/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above LEOPARD A1T. The LEOPARD A1 T is the first version purchased by Turkey and just completed a major overhaul of it's FC and associated systems in NOV 2009.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ar...hp/t-2324.html
http://www.turkishworld.multiservers.com/equipment.html
Pat

RE the various armour upgrades being made to the former German Leo 2a4's

Is there any source that even hints ( a little bit )that these may be close or more or less effective than say .......... the armour package on the 2a6's ? Most of this is a WAG at the best of times but we try to make changes based on some concrete information besides.. " well, they say they've upgraded beyond what it was in the mid 90's in Germany so lets add 10% more all around just becasue".

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 16th, 2010 12:39 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
I agree with your points, we'll stop (I'll) chasing our "tails" on the U.S. Army M60A1 RISE/Passive for the sake of historical accuracy (This is not a knock!), let's I strongly agree let it go.
Also for the sake speed I wanted to get responses back to you, so sorry for the extra work on your part to this point. But when I had a few moments I did go to MOHACK and what a great tool! I like the unit search mode and you'll be glad to know that I've already have started converting my other recommendations to come to this mode. I don't know what everything is I'm looking at (Time issue for now.) is but enough to get you what you need.
As a preview for the CHANGE category to come are USMC SPOOKY Unit 573 and LAV-AD Unit 050 or 054, or both, that I'll have to sort out with the encyclopedia. A simple Yes or No response if I'm on the track with these would do in tagging these items for you when get them posted with the info I have on them. As I've indicated many more CHANGE(s) and
DELETE(s) to come in next post.

Thanks again for reducing some of the BLISS in INGORANCE!
Time to get ready to start my work week have great day all!

Regards,
Pat

Marcello November 16th, 2010 04:53 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 763097)
New advanced Driver THERMAL sight, game enhancement I don't know unless it helps w/target acquisition somehow.

Not likely.

Quote:

3. New Commanders target/weapons stabilization system. This sounds like a plus to FC?
I am not the greatest living expert about the abrams, but the above sounds like it is talking about the commander MG which is a RWS in some versions. An improvement there should not affect main gun FC, so it does nothing game wise.

Quote:

SA/ED adds blue force locator and another electronic enhancement that I can't remember at the moment but is given I think in the first ref to cover the USA M1A1 SA/ED.
Again it does not register. You already get blue force locator by default with the game mechanics, even if you are playing with afghan militia circa 1949.

Really, a lot of significant improvements in real life simply mean nothing as far as the game is concerned. Belly armor? It isn't an adjustable parameter. Air conditioning? Cannot be simulated. Lower fuel consumption? Irrilevant. It is a issue of game scope, mechanics etc.

In addition to the above there is a question of economy. Aside from shortage of units slots which make fitting every single Abrams variant and subvariant, and there are quite a few of them (a result of the overlapping of various modernization programs), not practical there is also the issue of worth.
In principle for example I could still have added a small number of additional pages of suggested improvements to the iraqi OOB ground units, but it would have been a case of extra work for diminishing returns, the basics for a decently accurate gameplay having already been covered.

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 17th, 2010 03:43 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
5 Attachment(s)
Simply put, I care about armor, sensors and weapons and presenting this information, you can be assured that unlike our congress concerning certain legislation I do read through every ref I provide to pull out the "nuggets" that are real world issues, how that information is integrated into the game is beyond my technical knowledge and I'm sorry for that. The IED and Mine issue is DOA now that Don has explained this to me earlier, however "all around armor protection" means just that, since last I checked RPGs are launched from above ground and not from under it. And finally since it was brought up as well, I could careless about AC, except when it's for 55 days straight here when it was well over a 100 w/the humiture for everyday. But rest assured my computer with the game and every unit in it was very comfortable! Now I have work to do.

Don,
Concerning the LEOPARDS:
1. Leo A4M CAN let's look at it visually:
Attachment 10631 Attachment 10632

Attachment 10633 Attachment 10634

Attachment 10635 The Leo A4M CAN pics you have as I've submitted them. It's clear that the Leo A4M CAN is at least upgraded to the Leo A5 standard. However it would seem based on this next official govt. ref I managed to find it could have been upgraded all the way to the Leo A6M CAN level in armor protection. It would also then have the 120mm L55 as well. Please note the
28 March 2009 update.
http://casr.ca/doc-loi-leopard-tank.htm

2. The Turkish Leo A1T Unit 033, have not found anything solid on an armor upgrade, but it would make sense for as long as they've operated them and the huge investment they've made in the "big picture" (For clarification of others.) FC system they just installed on these last year. Maybe a gratis 10% might not be to unreasonable but that's your call. In the mean time I've emailed this question for all their Leo tanks to the following Turkish Govt. ref as given to support the FC issue as submitted already.
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/Sayfalar/default.aspx

3. Finally on the Turkish Leo 2A4T Unit 039 no information on any further armor upgrades as these tanks were delivered from Germany already to Turkish specs. However again the Aselan FC system was also installed on these as already submitted so the logical conclusion is it was better then what they came with from Germany or else, why bother?

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 17th, 2010 03:52 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Don,
A further picture on the Leo A4M CAN for analysis.
Attachment 10636
Armor yes but based on the angle and parallax I'm thinking 120mm L44 still.

Photo analysis lots of info and something I did while watching our "friends".

Sometimes when a man has nothing else left but his wit, if used properly, it can be a potent weapon. Or not!

Good Night All!

Regards,
Pat

DRG November 17th, 2010 08:51 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 763231)
Don,
A further picture on the Leo A4M CAN for analysis.
Attachment 10636
Armor yes but based on the angle and parallax I'm thinking 120mm L44 still.

Photo analysis lots of info and something I did while watching our "friends".

Sometimes when a man has nothing else left but his wit, if used properly, it can be a potent weapon. Or not!

Good Night All!

Regards,
Pat

I agree it does look like that may be an L44 but that website you provided ( http://casr.ca/doc-loi-leopard-tank.htm ) does say they are all to be up-gunned to the L55. The angle of the tank does make determining gun length a bit tricky and it's too bad it wasn't taken 20 feet to the right.

In game terms if the 2A4's are upgraded to the 2A6M standard there is no point in having a separate 2a4 because in the game we assume it's going to be fully combat ready not stripped down for training unless there is some kind of difference but that same website does say

Quote:

At the same time, any reserve Leopard 2 A4+ can be fitted with the extra armour to become a Leopard 2 A6M and, thus, be ready for deployment into any war zone.
If you zoom in on that photo you can see three Leo 2's in the background on the road just under the gun barrel of the tank in the foreground and they are in standard green camo. This one may be a prototype showing what the conversion will turn it into but the gun hasn't been upgraded ( WAG ). What's interesting also is the partial slat armour at the rear rather than the full cage I've seen in photos of the Afghan mission tanks and how it appears to be flush with the forward side skirts which would suggest a significant side hull armour upgrade to the fighting compartment areas

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 17th, 2010 11:29 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
I was thinking along the same lines, that is a solid ref, and it had the right numbers also in regards too how many tanks were to be converted over to the Leo 2A4M CAN. I have seen the 20/20 split for the tank in other places between the CAF & Bundeswehr this could be a production issue and maybe a little "tit for tat" since the Leo 2A6M CAN were initially given on loan to the CAF. I do believe as well they are to the Leo 2A6M CAN standard. Some modifications were done to the Leo 2A4M CAN from lessons learned in combat with the Leo 2A6M CAN which is probably what we're seeing. With the Leo 2A6M CAN in the game, like the USA M60A1 R/P unless you have room for the Leo 2A4M CAN in Canada's slots, we can move on until some slots might get cleared later down the line.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 21st, 2010 03:38 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
Not in a hurry for an answer as like you I have plenty to do but; We know GD won the FRES-SV competition (APC thread.) with the ASCOD-2 variant w/CITW 40mm, it will be unaffected by the latest British MOD defence review, though due to the cuts the rest of the FRES program could be frozen or dropped. FRES-SV is expected to be fielded by 2015, would use June 2015 for initial field date to account for delays. I would need to comb the UK OOB as I think some related units might be in it that would need to be deleted. I have plenty of refs already posted with some more on standby. Currently going through threads to "bounce" what needs adding to the next post against my master list. Also to save time I have a handful of issues that pertain to aircraft and helos along the lines of these two examples: 1. B-52's are now (Recently started.) receiving major upgrades electronically to increase ECM and Countermeasures for use against threats. 2. British PUMA's (Also recently started.) are getting substantially more powerful engines installed amongst some lesser mods, in game terms for this it would mean an increase in speed/or distance travelled. Are these issues worth pursuing to you, before I go any further with them?
THANKS!
Regards,
Pat

DRG November 21st, 2010 12:02 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Any FRES units that should be deleted use MOBHack to give me the unit numbers. I have adjusted all dates to 6/115

I'm still amazed the B-52's are flying....'nough said, but if you find any info that gives an equivalency such as the EW will be equivant to that used by a B-1 or a B-2 let me know.

If the engine upgrade for the puma makes a real difference to the speed it should be changed but it would have to be >1 point. Lot's of times engine upgrades only really increase fuel economy or ease of maintenance and real world speed stays about the same but if it adds 10kph to the top speed it would be worth considering

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 21st, 2010 08:40 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Don,
Just got back, thanks for the reply. Don't worry I'm now MOBHack trained (Yes I hear you all-Thank God about time!) at least for the unit numbers.
1. You got it.
2. B-52's at least for another 25+/- about 5yrs. depending on sources.
3. They talk about increased lift which normally leads to increased tilt both combine in layman's terms to speed. These will be new engines if memory serves. I'll have quick notes as normal.
4. Of things to come same for USA Apache they will be extended for a projected 30yrs. upgrade info to be submitted (Block III.) which should make it equal to or on the plus side of the COMANCHE (AH-X) which will be on my Delete part of my HELO section along with others. We've come a long way since that program was cancelled almost 7yrs. ago.
http://www.military-today.com/helico...6_comanche.htm
Pic:
Attachment 10649
Thanks Again!
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 25th, 2010 03:56 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
Was working on the PARS variants for Malaysia (3 of 12 for consideration, others info is to sketchy to present now or not needed.) and ended up finding so far one MBT and up to maybe three APC types missing as well, have all the info, some typed in now. Looking into possibility of one or two more tanks missing as well but won't get bogged down here searching for them. One APC to delete and yes I'm using MOBHACK. Just wanted to give you a quick update no response needed-still working it. I guess I tripped into another "rabbit hole"!?!
Good Night!

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 28th, 2010 11:08 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Open to all for this question.
Hope everyone had a great weekend!?!
I have saved the pictures of equipment to "My Pictures", so no URL picture data. Is there another work around to getting more then 5 pictures to a post? Such as maybe logging out of the account and back in again? I am prepared to enter the rest on a separate post as I've had to do this before, if there's no other way. This next post is picture "heavy".
Thanks in advance!

Don,
The issue with Malaysia after a week+ I believe is now resolved. This is to include the MBT situation. The APC section has gone longer then anticipated, the "rabbit hole" issue again with equipment and net "false trails". Did my best to sort through some conflicting info but, I think the result is now good. Will treat this as a separate post to be released by mid week hopefully as my spare time allows. Count is currently:
MBT; Add 1, Mod 1 & Change 1.
APC; Add 8, Delete 1 & Change 1 so far. Got more to do,this is just an update, no response needed.
Regards to ALL,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 29th, 2010 07:15 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
5 Attachment(s)
Don,
Even being prepared doesn't prepare you! Just finished about an hour ago, here it is with one more to come later.

Again 2020 end dates for all unless otherwise noted. Dates based on when fielded by refs or determination (SWAG) where there's conflict in the refs. within guidelines as previously discussed by PM or Post. This was a tough one. Rabbits everywhere!?!

MBT- yes I found one more from my notes from the beginning of the year. For continuities sake in the MBT section will continue "number" system where left off.
A8. UKRAINE/JUN 2010/OPLOT-M/ADD 9K119M REFLEX (NATO Des. AT-11 SNIPER-B #Missiles UKN/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing OPLOT levels. I'm allowing a one year delay in the fielding date to avoid duplication in these tanks w/o Zaslon and with it now to save a slot unless you have room for both. This tank is slowly coming off the production lines but is a major improvement defensively to all other Ukrainian tanks. It features a new third generation ERA known as Nosh-2 which is equal to the current Russian Kontakt 5 ERA and some claim superior to it, plus side skirt protection was added. Also it has the Shtora countermeasure system and it was fitted with the Zaslon APSystem as well. Also it has improved sites, FC and situational awareness.
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/articl...hp?forumID=608 They know tanks they built them for the Soviet Union.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/oplot_m.htm
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84armament.php
Please use the links, though based on the original OPLOT they are helpful especially about the stats on the 125mm KBA3 SB main gun.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3009.html The Shtora-1.
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-...m-Ukraine.html
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3705.html
As currently on Ukraine’s T-84 and T-84 YATGAN. Notice no mention of the OPLOT (Lower left.) which was available when the YATAGAN was produced, the logical conclusion is the OPLOT must have Nosh-2 system or it just could be an omission for the base Nosh system.
http://www.milparade.com/digest.php?...fnum=95&lang=1 A Russian source a short note 3/4 of the page down. Seems to say the Ukrainians "borrowed" the base system of the time and further developed it.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3706.html More on Zaslon.
Pics:
Attachment 10657 Attachment 10658 Attachment 10659

M5. Mod: POLAND & MALAYSIA/PT-91 TWARDY UNITS 009, 010 & 018 & PT-91M PENDEKAR UNIT 500/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing PT-91 & PT-91M levels./Intentionally looked liked Malaysia was missing the base PT-91 TWARDY but after many nights of research and in dealing with other related issues to Malaysia I'm now satisfied that the PT-91M is it's only MBT to date. The army-guide.com contract section is a great tool, though it caused some confusion as noted below. Have seen no data on Polish Units 009 & 010 however, based on the refs it seems that Poland’s Unit 018 and Malaysia's Unit 500 are under protected based on info concerning the ERA pkgs on both. Other issues are quick noted in the below refs also concerning the improved PT-91M. However through some reading between the lines it became apparent to me not to add the PT-91 to Malaysia though at the same time I feel they have more (~110 from many sources.) PT-91M MBT's then shown by some refs.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/contracts.php Enter country from menu note for Malaysia it shows both versions contracted for, this started the "ball of confusion" as MANY sites supported that info. Add the PT-91 & PT-91M totals and I believe the number of tanks was 106.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product179.html For PT-91 TWARDY
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3431.html Please note Para 7 about the main gun as it might affect the PT-91M PENDEKAR as it's in the game for Malaysia as UNIT 500.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/pt91_twardy.htm Please note Para 2 and the bottom of the ref in the variant section covering the PENDEKAR.

C9. Change: MALAYSIA/UNIT 500/PT-91M to PT-91M PENDEKAR.


APC Development...
A1. MALAYSIA/MCV PARS/JUN 2012/C4 P7/DENAL EMAK 30mm Cam Gun
210(65 ready.) Rds & MG4 Coax 7.62mm 1.6KRds (800 ready.)/
Though the PARS are manufactured in Turkey (DENAL is S. African.) Malaysia will be the first country to purchase them after what was a long and grueling competition between it and the Swiss PARANHA IIIC and the Polish ROSOMAK. It is fully amphibious and Malaysia has fully equipped and protected these vehicles leaving out no optional equipment etc. such the FC targeting "AUTO TRACKING" as is available by the DENAL source. Turkey and the UAE are still evaluating the PARS. I will address a couple of variations.
http://www.denellandsystems.co.za/pr...ll_description.
html
Primary as it covers all aspects of the vehicle.
http://www.denellandsystems.co.za/pr...scription.html
Pics:
Attachment 10660 Attachment 10661

A2. MALAYSIA/APC PARS/JUN 2012/C2 P12/RO 12.7mm 2K Rds or RO 40mm AGL 40 Rds /Malaysia has ordered 275 units in 12 variations. Would add both APC types; ammo load based on similar APC weapon types.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2711.html Note contract info lower left of page.
See Page 5 Post #45.
Pics:

D1. Delete: MALAYSIA/PIRANHA III/UNIT 030/As noted above it lost along with the ROSOMAK per refs and posts above to the PARS.

The following share the same refs., with some having specific additional refs as added. Turrets single manned unless noted differently. All purchased from FNSS of Turkey. Modified in armor to some extent (10% gratis?) over Turkeys units to meet Malaysia’s needs. What's not at issue is the number of additional smoke and 76mm grenade launchers added as the pictures for all show as compared to their Turkish counterparts. Also will provide Turkish counterpart unit numbers as they might apply for further info concerning ammo loads etc. A little "SWAG" on dates (Within a year except for ADNAN SP 120mm.) to group these together and to allow for earlier and follow on order deliveries.

A3. MALAYSIA/ADNAN 50 APC (Added 50 to avoid confusion w/A4)/JAN 2003/C2 P11/Turreted 12.7mm 2K Rds./
Pic:

A4. MALAYSIA/ADNAN AGL APC/JAN 2003/C2 P11/Turreted SAGO AGL 40 Rds./
Pic:

A5. MALAYSIA/ADNAN AIFV/JAN 2003/C2 P11/SHARPSHOOTER Turreted BUSHMASTER MKII M242 25mm UKN Rds w/COAX 7.62mm UKN Rds./Turkish
ZMA AIFV UNIT 176.

http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning24.html About the SHARPSHOOTER Turret w/specs, this info might cause review of Turkish UNIT 176 capabilities and manning?
Pic:

A6. MALAYSIA/ADNAN ATGW/JAN 2003/C3/BAKTAR SHIKAN MSL System 8-12 Missiles & 7.62mm UKN Rds./ This is a Pakistani system very similar to the Chinese RED ARROW 8 system in capabilities..
Pic:

Not entered under SP/SPAA section to keep same named units together.
A7. MALAYSIA/ADNAN SP 81mm/JAN 2003/C5/81mm 114 Rds & 12.7mm 2K Rds./Turkish ZHA AMV-81 UNIT 073.
Pic:

A8. MALAYSIA/ADNAN SP 120mm/JUN 2010/C5/120mm 80 Rds & 12.7mm 2K Rds./Turkish ZHA 120mm UNIT 076. If the Turkish ZHA AMV-81has a C5 shouldn't the ZHA 120mm manning be the same and not at the current C4? It is important to note that the ADNAN SP 120mm is mounted on the AVC-S (Stretched M113A3.) that's why I used 80Rds vice 68 - 74Rds. as on some others.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning21.html
Pic:

C1. Change: MALAYSIA/UNITS 042 & 232./KIFV to MIFV/The KIFV is the South Korean version.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1416.html
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/acv-s/
http://www.fnss.com.tr/v1.6/index.php?conmenu=56
http://kbmyaf.byethost18.com/TDM_Equip.htm
A little dated from 2009 but a good general over view w/great pictures.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/contracts.php Go to Select customer drop down window.

C2. Change: UK/UNIT 602/JAN 2015/ADD P7 (Carry)/FRES CVR(T) to FRES-SV/The FRES program required the ability to carry troops into combat. All other aspects of the FRES Program are on hold General Dynamics (See the GD UK site.) was to still compete for the other variants if and when bids are reopened. The only part of the program approved was for the utility vehicles (FRES-U) but was later revoked by MOD to pursue FRES-SV. The units to be deleted (As mentioned.) fell victim to a restart of the program such as has occurred with the U.S. GVC (See posts #47 & #48.) which was supposed to be reopened under tighter budget requirements and focused developmental restraints this month, however all has been quiet on that front here as well so far.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...s-01130/#other Program was revoked to focus on FRES-SV.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/unite...ations_uk.html Shows C3/P7.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/articl...p?forumID=1593 Again mentions carry ability.

Posts: Page 1: #1 & Page 4: #33 & #38.
Pics:

D2. DELETE: UK/UNITS 275, 329, 414 & 423/These are the FRES-U series vehicles that initial contracts were awarded for then revoked by BMOD to pursue FRES-SV per refs and posts.

A9. IRAQ/BTR-4/JAN 2011/C3 P8/Integrated PARUS RO turret w/30mm 360 Rds, 30mm AGL 150 Rds, 7.62mm 1200 Rds & Either KONKURS or BARRIER (BARYER) ATGW 4 missiles./ Iraq started to get these delivered in Oct 2010, training was started in Ukraine in SEP 2010. Allowing for the fielding of trained units w/ JAN 2011 date. Also Iraq only to get the combat GROM weapons module configuration (Utility versions ordered as well.).
POST: Page 6: #53. Associated ("the rabbit hole" thing again.) linkage to this:

A10. UKRAINE/BTR-4 GROM/JAN 2010/C3 P8/Integrated PARUS RO turret w/30mm 360 Rds, 30mm AGL 150 Rds, 7.62mm 1200 Rds & Either KONKURS or BARRIER (BARYER) ATGW 4 missiles./

A11. UKRAINE/BTR-4 BAU/JAN 2010/C3 P8/Integrated PARUS RO turret w/Twin 23mm 400 Rds & 7.62mm 2K Rds/
Has the BAU weapons module. As these are for export did not include the SHKVAL weapons module for Ukraine decided to go "heavy" and "light". SHKVAL is the same as the same as the GROM -2 missiles and +800 Rds of 7.62mm. To allow for the heavier armored version; change to P7 for carry.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...10-0708-06501/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...0-09-10-06608/
Update shows GROM configuration and others.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_4.htm I know it says sometime in 2009, but I'm more comfortable w/JAN 2010. If you want to change it no sooner then
JUN 2009.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/ukrai...s_technic.html NOTE: Unless I misread the bottom of the "Protection" section GROM is already better protected up to 30mm rounds out of the gate before up armoring it with no lose to carry.
Pics:

Alright I'm taking a break here to enjoy the rest of my last day off with CINCLANTHOME. Status for APC... left to do BOXER IFV status, ARMA 6x6 status, NAMER Iron Fist Mod and BRADLEY ERA Armor Mod. Then onto MRAPs and the rest. Will delete refs once I know they've posted safely form "My Favorites", also to avoid the timeout issues as this has been posted on use WordPad or Notebook (This came the support folks @ Shrapnel Games THANKS!!), I highlight my points, print it, when done copy to thread post highlight off printed version (Highlighting doesn't transfer.).

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 29th, 2010 07:29 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
4 Attachment(s)
All,
Pics:
A3. ADNAN 50 APC/Attachment 10667

A4. ADNAN AGL APC/Attachment 10668

A5. ADNAN AIFV/Attachment 10669 Attachment 10670

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 29th, 2010 07:38 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
4 Attachment(s)
All,
Pics:
A6. ADNAN ATGW/Attachment 10671 Attachment 10672

A7. ADNAN SP 81mm/Attachment 10673 Attachment 10674

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 29th, 2010 07:45 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
5 Attachment(s)
All,
Pics:
A8. ADNAN SP 120mm/
Attachment 10675 Attachment 10676
Attachment 10677

C2. FRES-SV for modeling and game?/Attachment 10678 Attachment 10679

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 29th, 2010 07:54 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
3 Attachment(s)
All,
Last one for page 2 inputs.
Pics:
A9. BTR-4 & A10. BTR-4 GROM/
Attachment 10680 Attachment 10681

A11. BTR-4 BAU/Attachment 10682

Don't remember (Though in refs.) All BTR-4 models are fully amphibious.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 29th, 2010 10:14 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
Just realized that the first ref for A1. MCV PARS was not put in right by me-sorry! Here it is below:
http://www.denellandsystems.co.za/pr...scription.html

Regards,
Pat

DRG November 30th, 2010 08:52 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Take a long break Pat. I'm already up to my ears

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 30th, 2010 12:52 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
THANKS! I haven't been able to play WinSPMBT since AUG. to finish off my campaign in progress. Will work the last slowly and it'll allow me to back check a couple of things. Currently looking at about 20-25 deletions across about 5 (US @ ~ 10) major player countries of course supported by refs. Just let me know when you're ready for me to post what should be my last one (I think?) for this patch season. I believe you posted last year at the end of FEB. to cut it off for the 5.5 patch, will use that as my timeline unless you tell me otherwise. I'll still check in here for when you get to the list as just posted for any questions you might have. Going to "copy" these and put them into their appropriate threads and catch up on some news while I'm in here. By the way fully supported the move you made in the artillery area to open slots and you know how I feel about arty. THANKS to everyone for the time and effort you all put into making the game more accurate, streamlined and better to play even the folks I might make mumble things under their breath!?! Everyone take care! My computer is asking me "Do you want to play a game?" still good movie tag line! Don no responce needed TAKE CARE.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH December 1st, 2010 02:37 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
No reply needed however, wanted to fix this before you got to it too prevent any rework. Left out Coax 7.62mm on ADNAN 50 and 12.7mm on ADNAN AGL plus changed manning due to the SACO 40mm turret.
A3. MALAYSIA/ADNAN 50 APC (Added 50 to avoid confusion w/A4)/JAN 2003/C2 P11/Turreted 12.7mm 2K Rds & Coax 7.62mm UKN Rds./
A4. MALAYSIA/ADNAN AGL APC/JAN 2003/C3 P9/Turreted SAGO MK19 Mod 3 AGL 40 Rds & Coax 12.7mm UKN Rds./

You can in Post #31 in the picture see the MG on the right side of the turret looking at the pic ADNAN AGL. Sorry for the omission again just wanted to prevent rework. I'm done here (Regarding the last submission.) except for Q&A as needed. SNAFU! God Bless Me!?! Darn Cold!!
THANKS!

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 23rd, 2011 08:49 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
5 Attachment(s)
Patch Post #3 Part 1 & 2 and last for the 2010 Input Campaign. Maintaining "number" item order for topics continued from last two Patch posts on topics previously covered. Again using fielded dates for these units. End dates are 2020 unless otherwise noted. All post references unless otherwise noted, are within the subject discussed below.
In many ways this is more of a "living document" you'll see breaks where I've stopped and started, and information has changed within even a span of a day or less, but this is to be as accurate as possible and to give Don the best info possible to make his decision on a particular item getting in, put off pending further info or not getting in at all. To make my case stronger I was aggressive in trying to find units to be deleted, as trade offs to getting something in, and to clear out some of the last of the developmental units or programs that never came to be fielded for one reason or another. Also in the Helo area I went for economy in providing an all around solution to meet all threats in the field and keep them flying throughout by use of ammo resources within the game. This avoids having 3 or versions of the same helos, we're just running out of slots too fast, and as long as Don and Andy can keep this going, we're still looking at 8 to 9 yrs. worth of patches before we've reached the end of this game. Helos is one area, planes are a little tougher and as are tanks but their might be room for some economy there as well. Other areas develop much slower and are better managed for the foreseeable future. What I see for this is priority to deletions, changes, mods and if time allows the additions this is more then fair as I know where the boss(es) are in the patch. So for next year; deal with left over units that didn't get in, get answers I have to questions of implementation for AC-130U SPOOKY, B-52, A-10 and APACHE that have had major electronic upgrades recently, my refs are ready and have been. Also looking at ARMA 4x4, MATADOR that just recently had buyers and TEJAS, these all will lead off the 2011 Input Campaign. Finally to Don for allowing me to finish this and to everyone (And some know who you are.) that have supported my efforts, provided advice and kept "my head in the game", and most importantly to those that have taken the time out of their busy days too read what I've posted. THANKS! Don I'll answer questions dealing with this list as needed on this thread. Submitting this as parts 1 through 3 for picture management and character issues.

MBT's AGAIN!?!
Don might have to rethink the MBT Item A6:
CANADA/NOV 2010/LEOPARD 2A4M/RESET/Came across this article on 6 DEC 2010. The Leopard 2A6M tanks Canada leased from Germany are being returned (Now) after all. This might change the complexion of the Q&A discussions we had concerning this issue. This was on the first patch page submitted.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news102921.html The last line says it all where things are headed, but that's for next year I would think.
UPDATE ALERT 12/07/10! I went back to the Canadian source I put in Post #21 of this thread. But I also want to draw your attention to Post #22. Here are the two points gleamed from this source.
1. Keep the LEOPARD 2A6M: 40 of the 100 Dutch tanks will be RESET to this standard therefore the return to Germany of the 2A6M tanks is a wash. 20-40 will be upgraded to 2A4M standard above what they got from the Germans. The rest will fall into utility conversions.
2. Might have to reconsider adding the 2A4M as it does have the 120mm SB L44 vice the L55 gun as I thought in Post#22. So we're left with a LEO 2A4M with the protection level of a LEO 2A6M with an improved 120mm L44 main gun.
http://casr.ca/doc-news-kmw-leopard-2a4m.htm Para 1 will also link you to the Dutch tank deal within the site if desired.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-canada-03208/

C10. Change: UKRAINE/OPLOT/UNITS 061-063/Add 9K119M REFLEX (NATO Des. AT-11 SNIPER-B) 6 Missiles. Noticed from refs that ATGW load has no affect on conventional ammo loads from refs. Must be due to size that addition of these doesn’t take up that much room as compared to conventional rounds. Am under the impression from further looking into other countries platforms this is just about a "universal truth" across the board.
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84armament.php
http://www.pmulcahy.com/tanks/ukrainian_tanks.html
See bottom of the page. And yes I saw the number if it is 100% correct, however six works as that's what's in the game now for the T-84 tanks as well. Changing the number to 5 missiles would not only affect the Ukrainian tanks but would spill over to Russian ones (T-80 and
T-90 series.) as well and any one who uses them outside the Ukraine and Russia that has the ATGW. I say Das Vydonia to a couple of rolls of toilet paper and keep the six packs instead!

APC Development...Continued.

M1. MOD: TURKEY/ACV-S IFV 30/JAN 2008/C3 P1O/30mm w/800Rds & Coax 7.62mm w/2.2KRds./ Originally when I entered this I thought to put it in as an "Add", however after thinking about it for a few days I've changed it to a "Mod" because the refs though from solid sources leave me with some doubt as to them serving with Turkey even after watching a FNSS production line video of them being built. I might be conservative here but my confidence level is at 85%+ that Turkey has them. This applies too M2 below as well.

M2. MOD: TURKEY/ACV-S IFV 25 ATGW/JAN 2008/C3 P10/25mm w/900Rds & Coax 7.62mm w/2.2KRds also 8 TOW B ATGW/ As noted above.

A12. ADD: SAUDI ARABIA/ACV-S IFV 30/JUN 2007/C3 P10/30mm w/800Rds & Coax 7.62mm w/2.2KRds/ This is definite though it was only a small order of 10 - 20 units.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning21.html Even within the Turkish Army these represent only a total of about 200 out of 2,200 that were converted from the M113A units Turkey has. I would feel these would've been "up protected" as shown by this ref. A12 was done so without a doubt against 30mm Rds with Spall liners.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning16.html ACV-S IFV 30 and 25 ATGW variants.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/24806...nce+industries
Pic:
Attachment 10781

A13. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR 12.7/JUN 2012/C2 P9/RO 12.7mm w/1.5KRds/ These APCs are to replace the aging fleet of the EE-11 Erutu class APCs developed in the mid 70's. Will address some of the types to be fielded here. Brazil will be buying these in the top of the line configuration for all types at the 30mm protection level, fully amphibious (There's a no brainier look at the geography.) and with all the bells and whistles in the sensor and targeting department this is to include the UT-30 turret and others. Brazil’s economy is the fastest growing one in the western hemisphere and in the top five in the world. They are also sitting on well over of a trillion dollars worth of new oil off the coast making it the second largest oil field in the world (Ref. 60 Minutes.), you can afford to modernize especially when your neighbor is getting billions in military aid from Russia. Will try to track down actual Brazilian name for the type (They like using names of snakes.) but, will improvise name with weapon type carried for now to get these in as this is a done deal. All refs will be added at the end.

A14. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR UT30/JUN 2012/C2 P9/RO UT-30 30mm w/250KRds & Coax 7.62mm w/1KRds/ This is a highly versatile turret developed by ELBIT Systems. Per the refs this turret has no affect on crew or carry as most systems similar to this also have none as well. Ref. for this turret provided here also to include an excellent article on APC turrets as well.

A15. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR UT-30AT/JUN 2012/C2 P9/RO UT-30 30mm w/250Rds w/Coax 7.62mm w/1KRds and 4 SPIKE ATGW/ The Brazilian Marines are to get this weapons version also, as well as the Army with the following exception, the Marine VBTP-MR UT-30AT will be an 8x8, increase carry to C12 for the Marine 8x8 and this could be low, also again as with all types it'll be fully amphibious.
http://elbitsystems.com/Elbitmain/files/UT30.PDF Again this is being bought fully equipped and protected. Adjust size as needed as set by your system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4a8ODHNbuA A short video 1:41 in length worth watching and it might help in modeling it.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2059.html This and the next deal with the contract awarded for the UT-30 RO turrets.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/21010/

And as I did with Malaysia’s ADNAN, I will include the SP mortar units here as well as follows:

A16. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR 81M/JUN 2012/C4/81mm w/114Rds & RO 12.7mm w/2KRds.

A17. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR 120M/JUN 2012/C5/120mm w/70Rds & RO 12.7mm w/2KRds.
http://www.defense-update.com/produc...mr_130409.html
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/475/
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ivecovbtpmr/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/vbtp_mr.htm
http://www.armyrecognition.com/brazi...mation_uk.html
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4269.html

Pic:
Attachment 10782

After a delay of a couple of years, Sweden will finally get its PATRIA AMV's. As a reminder I'm only interested in when units are fielded (or operationally assigned to units etc.), so yes I noted that deliveries of the first batch of AMV's will be completed near years end 2013 however, do take note it also states they will be operational by early 2014. As much of this was in the works before the court challenges and allowing for Swedish efficiencies that's why I'm recommending JAN 2014 which I have on good authority is well within the 6 month "swag (or wag)" of not changing dates. This was just a reminder for those "newer to the site".
A18. ADD: SWEDEN/AMV APC/JAN 2014/C2 P10/RO PML 127 OWS 12.7mm turret w/2.5KRds.

A19. ADD: SWEDEN/AMV IFV/JAN 2014/C3 P9/LAV 30 turret w/ATK BUSHMASTER 30mm w/175 Rds & coax 7.62mm w/2KRds./

A20. ADD: SWEDEN/AMV ATGW/JAN 2014/C3 P8/ LAV 30 turret w/ATK BUSHMASTER 30mm w/175 Rds & coax 7.62mm w/2KRds. and 8 TOW ATGW/

As with the VBTP-MR 81mm & 120mm above will list the AMV AMOS below as the AMV is a new platform for Sweden. All will be transferred to the SPA/SPAA section further on to keep things in order.

A21. ADD: SWEDEN/AMV ATMOS/JAN 2014/C3/AMOS Twin Barreled Turreted 120mm Mortar w/56Rds (Split the difference of 50-60Rds.), 12.7mm w/1.2KRds & 7.62mm w/2KRds.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2220.html
About the
LAV-30 Turret.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2219.html About the LAV-30 TOW Turret.
http://www.gdls.com/classic/systems/lav30-tow.html About the LAV-30 TOW Turret from the manufacturer.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product665.html About the BUSHMASTER II.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/amos.htm
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...led-APC-05579/
First article that covers the whole project etc.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/patria_amv.htm
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20055/ Legal.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20707/
Legal.
Pic:

M3. MOD: USA/BRADLEY/JAN 2011/UNITS 006, 305-306, 309, 655, 664, 666 (Yikes!) & 668/ As in the game add a new tech ERA/ARA package and upgrades below.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...835/#more-2835 Please note APR 06 '09 & SEP 22 '08 as these affect the above units. Others in the game were out of service by 2008 - 2009. But the big issue here is the ARA protection and "belly steel" for IED protection (I don't know what their 0 - 6 protection level is.).
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...updated-02451/ This is one of those seek peek articles but gets what you need though, and it is definitely one of the most advanced and new ERA/ARA packages out there.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20012/ This covers the ERA upgrade.
Pic:
Attachment 10783

M4. MOD: ISRAEL/NAMER/JUN 2011/UNITS 087 & 088/ As in the game add HITFIST APS with 4 shots (From 2 launchers.) Similar to the TROPHY system it has been developed by the IDF for its APCs. Of note is the fact that it has been tested by the U.S. Army this past fall as well. With the NAMER to be manufactured in the U.S. soon, I won't think it too long before we see these systems on our armor as well. Not unusual between the two allies as Israel was the only country to be considered to get the AH-X (See HELO section.) outside the U.S. had the program succeeded.
http://defense-update.com/features/2...ps_090609.html
http://defense-update.com/wp/2010092..._fist_osd.html
This also covers the U.S. test.
http://www.defense-update.com/featur...09062010.html# In the 3rd Para. discussing IRON FIST is where it mentions the two twin launchers to be mounted on the NAMER.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...94&c=FEA&s=SPE Discusses how the TROPHY and IRON FIST systems work at bottom.
http://www.prlog.org/10258921-idf-se...heavy-apc.html
Pic:
Attachment 10784

DELETE: USMC/EFV/UNIT 189/ Was the USMC program cut by the SECDEF on 06 Jan. 2011 in an effort to reduce the defense budget by now 80 - 90 Billion dollars btwn now and FY 2016. The CORPS will reconsider its AMPHIB options, this again as the EFV gets cancelled on the 40th anniversary of their current ones. I will provide posts for this as it was just recently done last week.
Posts: Page 9; #83, #85 & #86.

This is a bonus that was helpful with some of the above.
[url]http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/68973-briefing-stick-your-guns.html[/url] This would be an excellent source to check against APCs current in the game or for you game designers. The article is legitimate from Jane’s as I've read from the author and have read a small portion of it from the "free view" section. Nice that somebody can afford the subscription price!?! Well CINCLANTHOME wouldn't authorize the expenditure anyway.

MRAPS and a couple...

A1. ADD: ROMANIA/MAXXPRO DASH/JAN 2011/C3 (Including gunner.)
P6/Turreted 12.7mm w/2KRds/
They will receive 60 units on loan from the U.S., 20 of which are brand new with 40 refurbished and upgraded to meet the newer specs of units now operating in theater by the U.S. These are the better protected more maneuverable U.S. versions since initially deployed in
2007. Expect Romania to keep these as a "thank you" for serving with the coalition. First units were delivered in Oct 2010 (8) they should have most by now and be trained in their use as well that's why JAN 2011.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18551/
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-...ghanistan.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...avistar-03344/
http://www.army-technology.com/proje...ash/specs.html


A2. ADD: NIGERIA & UN/GILA/JAN 2008/C2 P10/Turreted 12.7mm UKN Rds & RM 7.62mm UKN Rds./As noted by the post this again is a CASSPRI on steroids with, much better all around armor protection and mobility. DENAL in fact this past summer has just released the new CASSPIR 4 to compete against the GILA. Also the company website lists that seven countries operate the GILA if I use the AU countries that have supplied troops to DARFUR they would be Cameroon, Egypt, Ethiopia, Malawi, Nigeria, Rwanda, Senegal, Tanzania and Uganda. Though on the post I gave my best guess (Angola and Kenya had troops there at the time of the refs as posted.) of who else has them I can't find anything concrete on them or of any listed above except Nigeria. Only Senegal "reappears" from the first post to now. Nigeria and UN (Canada selected these over the CASSPIR and others in the procurement process for UNADIM.) are the only ones I can say I'm sure of.
Post: Page 8; #75 for pictures as well.

A3. ADD: UK/OCELOT/JUN 2011/P6/RM 12.7mm w/2KRds/The problem here is that a team of six get to and fight from this vehicle, there is no crew per say, I don't know how you can make this work? Won the UK MOD completion in the LPPV program beating out the Supacat SPV 400.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20095/
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news103743.html
Posts: Page 7; #68, Page 8; #79 and Page 9; #84 for pictures as well.


TRANSPORT FOR U.S. ...UPDATE!

D1. DELETE: ITALY/MEADS/UNIT 182/The reason for deletion is that the MEADS is about 4 - 5 years out from being fielded providing there are no delays in testing and as follows. This program is under so much pressure that if any one of the three legs holding this up falters (U.S. 58%, Germany 25% & Italy 17% of funding.) this program is probably done. As I noted in the "JET..." thread it was not mentioned in the JAN 06, 2011 speech by SECDEF Gates as one of the programs to be cut, also no news out of the other two partners of any move thus far to do likewise with their defense budgets even though they are making major cuts as well in defense spending. Lockheed Martin is also pushing hard against it (MEADS) as well with the major success seen in the PATRIOT (Upgrade.) PAC 3 missile. But this could survive all because of the cancellation guarantees that could run into the 100's of millions of dollars at the point of termination in development. It should be noted however that the program has been very successful to date. This will allow for a mobile platform to be properly modeled as this is NOT a static system! Also each mobile launcher will have a dedicated ammo unit paired with it, and will actually be bought as a unit in this manner such as the ARCHER SPA System and the USA with PALIDAN.
[url]http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/FMTV-2010-2015-Oshkosh-Wins-The-Re-Compete-05744/#more-5744[/url] FMTV based on this to be the new launcher, supply and component platform.
http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_fmtv.php
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...KEYWORDS=meads
http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNN2726097420101027
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...s-0639/#conops
Posts: Page 1; #6 & #7, Page 2; #11, #12, #15, #17 & #18.

Pic:
Attachment 10785
D2. DELETE: USA & USMC/HUMRAAM/UNITS 816 & 513 Respectively/Program cancelled on 06 Jan. 2011 by SECDEF Gates.
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/...5f3882e1791d50
SECDEF Gates kills SLAMRAAM & EFV etc.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...1f966&_cview=0 Dated: 02 Sep. 2010 @ 1041. This is to show how long ago and fast a program dies. This document is the final solicitation notice to incorporate the FMTV as the launcher platform and complete the testing to final system operational demonstration of SLAMRAAM as it goes into low rate production.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...1415a&_cview=0 Dead. Dated: 22 Sep. 2010 @ 0909.
Posts: Page 2; #16 & #20.

S-400 TRIUMF Page 4 TO&EsC1.

C1. CHANGE: RUSSIA/S-400 TRIUMF/UNIT 295/Fielded date to JAN 2010 vice JAN 2007/This program suffered from delays as well and I suspect was entered based on developmental data. This is mounted on a mobile platform as well as it should be. Will transfer this info to the SPA/SPAA thread when done here.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/s-400.htm As of 2007 it was not deployed due to technical issues. Some reported it had but as this touches on it there was confusion in the west between the S-400 and an upgraded version of the S-300 early on as well.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/12012/ S-400completes trials in Nov. 2009 as reported in Dec. 2009.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/14918/ This article would almost suggest a later date then I have given above based on production and combat launch testing to not have been completed/or started until this past fall. I still like the date above as Post #1 supports this as well as the AUSA (Which in the updated section supports Post #1.) source I used recently in the Jet... thread.
Post: Page 1; #1.
End Part 1


Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 23rd, 2011 10:03 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
5 Attachment(s)
Part 2 Start for 2010/2011 patch input.

SP & SPAA...

A1. ADD: NORWAY/ARCHER/JAN 2012/Per SWEDISH UNIT 416/This is a joint venture between the two countries. First operational units not due for delivery until OCT. 2011 again allowing for small delays and training w/JAN 2012. It should be noted as in the Post below; these are manufactured and sold with a matching ammo carrier as shown in the pictures of the post. Can maybe this be addressed at a later time within the game?
Don't know what the technical issues are to do this.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...142/#more-5142 Does the M 151 RO MG system need to be added? See "ARCHER SYSTEM" Para with pic.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/9306/ Covers joint deal w/delivery date.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/8490/ Announces prototype is ready. See related article links at bottom.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/archerhowitzer/
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2819.html
See links at bottom of article.

C1. CHANGE: SWEDEN/ARCHER/Fielded date of JAN 2012 vice JAN 2010/ See notes and refs for A1 above.
Posts: Page 1; #5 & #6 and Page 2; #16.

C2. CHANGE: FINLAND/AMV AMOS/UNITS 335 & 348/Fielded dates to JAN 2013 vice Jan 2008. /The below source though not complete does start to mention contract issues. The Jan 2008 date was about the time the Swedes were having their legal issues with PATRIA as mentioned above in the APC section for the AMV. Also it's my understanding that the AMOS and NEMO systems are from the start capable of direct fire support out of the box, wouldn't it make sense to delete FINNISH UNIT 335 based on that and ensure that the SWEDISH AMV AMOS is a copy of FINNISH UNIT 348? Note dates are only 1yr. apart.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-Turret-06692/ Note it says "initial order" for the AMOS.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20563/ Specifically mentions that amendments were made to the original 2003 contract.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news105201.html Again as above.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/propo...e_news_48.html Again as above. I'm convinced that issues with the contract existed and I'm willing to bet it had to do with PATRIAs legal issues in Sweden as part of the cause in the delay as well. If you go to the equipment side of a couple of the above sites they support what's in the OOB however those obviously have not been updated to reflect the news side of these sites from this past Dec. of 2010 when PATRIA released the press notice.

A2. ADD: UAE (GULF STATES an issue for later.) & SYRIA/PANTSYR-S1/JAN 2007 & JAN 2009 respectively./As per RUSSIAN UNIT 414./These are among the six countries mentioned in the refs to have received these SPAA units, but are the only ones I can find firm dates for. The other countries are India sometime around mid 2007 - 2008, Algeria in ~2008 and Jordon & Libya ~2010 late - 2011 late. I will find what I can but this will be for next year.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/newsf...ms_russia.html About Algeria and Libya.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/pantsyr/ Please don't mix up contract dates with delivery dates. Note country and expected users mentioned.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...le_uk/pantsir_ pantsyr_s1_sa-22_greyhound_air_defense_missile_gun_system_techni cal_data_sheet_specification.html See country user list bottom.
http://defense-update.com/products/p/pantsir.htm Mentions India in the last line. Will make contact with BROADSWORD site to see if I can't get some independent confirmation on this.
Post: Page 1; #4 & #8.

M1. MOD: RUSSIA/PANTSYR-S1/UNIT 414/Name as shown vice S1 PANTSYR/Fielded date from JAN 2008 to JAN 2010./ This is a highly capable SPAA unit that Russia exported before they made it operational for their Air Force. Per the post below they are using the more advanced SA-22 discussed. Name change based on refs. and the headache I got trying to verify status in the game, the last is the funny part!?!
http://www.armyrecognition.com/newsf...greyhound.html Russian operational induction in 2010.

M2. MOD: USMC/LAV-AD BLAZER/UNIT 54/Change end date to JUN 2004 vice DEC 2001/Modify TI/GSR to 45 and EW to 5 as Unit 50 currently shows and possible 25mm ammo load maybe increased?/Both units shared the same BLAZER turret. What really hurt this unit was its low production rate with only 17 total units made. Spares (electronic components) were already very expensive and made more so by the limited numbers. By permission I work with retired USMC GySGT. C. Vanderaa who was a gunner in the test unit evaluating the LAV-AD and he informed me there was one circuit board they had that cost just over 100K, ONE CARD. But he loved them just as any who served with them or were supported by them as they were used for fire support during the spring and summer of 2003 during OIF. Check the blogs for yourself. The 25mm is the same as used by the USMC Harriers and AC-130U SPOOKY w/APDU rounds as well I understand. UPDATE 01/20/2011: Relieved the "Gunny" and he commented the following 1) BLAZER turret underwent only minor changes. 2) Explained "Vision" to him in game terms, he noted the systems FC and Vision were very sensitive and far reaching because one of the parameters in the design had to be the very fast and accurate response to "pop up" helos at close in and extended ranges. It was simply a matter of who shoots first wins. So ECM, FC & TI/GSR were very advanced for the time. 3) APDU were the preferred rounds carried on board to meet APC etc. threat, and he specifically mentioned to have the ability to take down the HINDS quickly if encountered and to take out fortified positions and anyone defending them which was very adept in during OIF. He got to see them in action in OIF and they were glad to have them. Apparently according to him they exceeded expectations locally in the ground support role. Ammo is an issue to be addressed based on this and below.
http://www.marines.mil/news/messages...es03top55.aspx Note RMKS/1.C. the 4th LAV (AD) Platoon was the HQ Platoon. This message is dated on 241500Z NOV 2003, almost two months into FY04; this is why I chose JUN 2004 vice APR 2004 (Mid point for FY04.). The latest date possible would be SEP 2004as OCT 2004 would start FY 2005.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx6/lav_ad/index.html
Capt. Whit Houston’s site, the last CO to command the LAV-AD Company when they cased their colors.
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/jasonm/ Sgt. Jason Millett’s site, he served with Capt. Whit Houston during his tour as CO prior to, and during OIF until the unit cased its colors. You'll need a little patience to download his video but for those of you that served they'll see those kids weren't much different then when we did our time, enough said there. Towards the end are pictures of the 25mm rounds I mentioned above, if not APDU, they are certainly a modified AP round of some sort, I'll check with the "Gunny". Also a great song by "Three Doors Down" it sets the tone for the video and situation and reminds me of my own long deployments away from family but still surrounded by "family" under the waves.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ems/gau-12.htm To support the above and APDU rounds, though on the HARRIER, I understand this was standard for the LAV-AD for the same purpose against air and light armored targets. Might this affect the current ammo penetration value given for the unit?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...v-ad-specs.htm Note ammo load (out) is this an issue for the game unit?
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Ri...ge/GAW_LAV.htm From some game site (UKN) but the info on the technical side (Non game.) is correct. Might be of some value for you developers as well.
http://www.generaldynamics.com/ No reference to the LAV-AD off the current site in the Land Systems section.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM82Vuq3PdM LAV-AD combat night action during OIF note comment section. Play it loud and in full screen and thank God you’re not on the receiving end! Short about 1 mike. Also answers the wheel spin effect in some pictures, that was brought up in the MRAP thread I believe, in the second comment called "stroboscopic effect”, who says we can't learn something new once in awhile?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XooFmPUt6aA General Dynamics Aerospace video on the LAV-AD BLAZER in action. Short about 1.5 mikes.
Added new pics because the one shown in the game is the export version with the MINSTREL System:
Pic:
Attachment 10786 Attachment 10787

D1. DELETE: USMC/LAV-AD BLAZER/UNIT 50/ The LAV-AD BLAZER was taken out of service as the official USMC document will show above in M2 among other refs as well. This version I trust shows it with the STRINGER BLK II missile which had its funding stripped and was cancelled in 2002, it never was fielded. LAV-AD was eventually replaced by the HUMVEE AVENGER platform.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/blazer/ Supports info above in M2 as well.

Helo News game...

I'm going to start this a little differently see APC Page 7 Post #69 for a moment, read it carefully please, then carry on. In hindsight maybe I should've polled the issue, the only response I got came from Suhiir on Post #70. But I'm taking my shot here based on the fact no one took the opportunity to "kill" the idea since I posted it, so here goes. This applies to the USMC AH-1Z, USA AH-64D BIII and Turkish T129 AKAK for now as they are new platforms. Multi-missioned and armed in one package as normally equipped configuration per the refs and pictures offered.

Here's comes the "rub" as discussed above. As this is a work in progress the "rub" is where I left off a day ago. I thought, I would find more to delete here but there's less. I have had to make some guesses here as the USMC AH-1 helos never got designated past I believe it was the AH-1T (Only one if I remember.) in the game. So I offer the following solution. The AH-1W came into service in 1985, I'm sorry but I didn't have time to track them all down and I had to check them all manually to find 1. Which were the latest AH-1W helos to establish the "bridge" to the AH-1Z? & 2. Were the AH-1Z helos entered based on the projected earlier delivery dates? I hope I did, here goes:

A1. ADD: USMC/AH-1Z VIPER/JUN 2011/C2/M 179 20mm AG w/750Rds, 8 AGM-114L LONGBOW HELLFIRE ATGW, 2 x 2.75 Laser Guided AFPKWS (LGA) 19 Shot Rocket Pods and (2 AIM-9 SIDEWINDER AAM dropping these as I now see more clearly the game limited weapons slot issue with the helos.)/ Picture below shows this configuration. Also the USA doesn't get the LGA as they dropped the program. The PDF Pocket Guide is a must here in the Protection and TSS sections in particular. Armor protection up to 23mm rounds in the rotor section and it keeps flying is substantial as an example. Recommend that TI/GSR 60, increase FC and survivability such as IR dampeners were greatly improved and armored engine surfaces (AH-1W as depicted by M3 has been modified to this standard as well.) as compared to
UNITS 502 & 503 below.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18440/ Bell announces that on Sep. 24, 2010 NAVAIR deems the AH-1Z operationally ready.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20163/ Approved for full rate production Nov. 28, 2010.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20437/ As above from Bell.
http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.co.../bellAH-1Z.cfm Overview and I highly recommended checking out the PDF Pocket Guide in upper left for more detailed info.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/ Excellent info on the AH-1W and AH-1Z. This needs addressing especially as these are tied into the TSS system above and with the AH-1W as well, just a recommendation anyway.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...d-phase-02193/ Deployed on AH-1W helos now. USA dropped the program the USN was smarter here to finish it, and who says we don't take care of the Marines!?! Well sometimes anyway!?!
http://www.deagel.com/news/APKWS-Gui...000007266.aspx Production ready. Accuracy to within 0.75M vice I believe the unguided accuracy was between 5M to 10M.
http://www.defense-update.com/newsca...009042010.html As above.
Posts: APC Thread Page 7; #69, Page 8; #70; #71 & 75. USMC Aircraft... thread (All threads page 3) Post #5. From this thread Page 1; Posts #1; #4; #7 &9.

Believe these to be the AH-1W and AH-1Z.

M1. MOD: USMC/AH-1/Use UNIT 502 to model the above A1.
ADD AH-1Z VIPER.


D1. DELETE: USMC/AH-1/UNIT 503/As noted above.

M2. MOD: USMC/AH-1/UNIT 501/AH-1 to AH-1W/End date from DEC 2005 to DEC 2010./

M3. MOD: USMC/AH-1/UNIT 500/AH-1 to AH-1W/JAN 2010 to DEC 2020 vice JAN 2000 to DEC 2005/ This is the bridge unit to the AH-1Z as an improved AH-1W, REMEMBER as noted in the refs above most airframes are going to come from the AH-1W. These are improved above the levels as they exist in the game now and slightly "dumbed down" from the AH-1Z helos. Weapons same, TI/GSR 45-50, FC+, Protection etc. Though some improvements have started as noted not will be included until these are sent to be finally fully refitted and RESET to the AH-1Z thus effectively ending the AH-1W series after 2020.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/19155/
AH-1W target system upgrade.
http://www.military-today.com/helico..._hueycobra.htm
http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Armor-Wea...001111006.aspx
Overview of the HELLFIRE "LONGBOW".
Pics:
Attachment 10788

A2. ADD: TURKEY/T129/JUN 2012/C2/Vulcan TM197B 20mm w/500Rds, 8 SPIKE ER ATGW, 2 x 2.75 Laser Guided CIRIT 19 Shot Rocket Pods/ Based on the (is) Italian A129I Helo. The A129"MONGOOSE" has been in service since 1989 and is battle tested most recently in IRAQ. It was chosen over the SAAF (DENAL) AH-2A ROOIVALK in the final round of completion. Turkey had to reopen it's AH Helo competition over the long delays in the AH-1Z program. Turkey opted out of that program in 2004, which was the only export customer for the AH-1Z.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...updated-02397/ Full program background.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/agusta/ Same as above with more technical info.
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/690/ Additional order.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/10114/ Maiden flight.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/7...s_eng.php?id=5 About Turkish CIRIT.
http://www.roketsan.com.tr/programs_eng.php?id=6 About Turkish ATGW LARAT.
http://www.military-today.com/helico...9_mangusta.htm First of its kind in Europe.
Pics:
Attachment 10790

D2. DELETE: TURKEY/AH-1Z/UNITS 484 - 487/ As noted above.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...raft/ah-1z.htm Last section covers the above.

A3. ADD: USA/APACHE AH-64D BIII/JAN 2012/C2/30mm w/1.2KRds, 8 AGM-114L LONGBOW HELLFIRE ATGW & 2 x 2.75 AFPKWS 19 Shot Rocket Pods picture provided./The Block III takes the APACHE certainly to and beyond the levels of the AH-X COMANCHE except in the area of stealth. The advances in electronics and bandwidth are far beyond what was achieved in the 6 - 8 years since the AH-X program was killed. The debate has already started (Some a handful of years ago.) as to which is better the AH-64D Block III or AH-1Z. I'd say it's too close to call. What I don't doubt is when they come on line, 1 will be #1 and the other #2 and #2 isn't so bad when you're on the same side.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/apache/
http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Helicop...000519004.aspx
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t/ah-64d-3.htm
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...III-helicopter
Poor mans preview.
http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/10/25...ck-iii-apache/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/19087/
Approves low rate production.
http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Armor-Wea...001111006.aspx Overview of the HELLFIRE "LONGBOW".
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...461/#more-6461 Details some of the sensor issues I brought up above.
Pic:
Attachment 10789

So now we say goodbye too:

D3. DELETE: USA/AH-X (COMANCHE)/UNITS 274 - 276 & 916/As noted above.

D4. DELETE: ISRAEL/AH-X (COMANCHE)/UNIT 283./As above.
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...aircraft_id=49
http://air-attack.com/page/62/RAH-66-Comanche.html
http://www.military-today.com/helico...6_comanche.htm


End Part 2

Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 23rd, 2011 11:04 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
5 Attachment(s)
Start Part 3
HELOS Con't:


A4. ADD: NEW ZEALAND/NH 90 TTH A109 /JUN 2011/C3 P20/With its roll on - roll off ramp it can also accommodate a single vehicle up to 2.5 tons. The TTH has "nap of the earth" flying ability. There is supposed to be work done or being done to accommodate MG's for protection.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...0466/#more-466 Breakdown of the RNZAF NH-90 program.
http://www.military-today.com/helicopters/nh_90.htm
Pic:
Attachment 10791

AC-130U TIME TO...

C1. CHANGE: USMC/AC-130U SPOOKY/UNIT 573/Name AC-130U SPOOKY to AC-130U+4 SPOOKY/End Date to DEC 2010 vice DEC 2020/In the eyes of the USAF this was a failed attempt to remove the 25mm and 40mm and replace it with the 30mm. This was conversion was only done on 4 of the 17 operational SPOOKYS. Part of the reason the conversion was due to the maintenance and ammo requirements of the 25mm and 40mm. The other, the 30mm was found to be inaccurate and thus "operationally unsuitable" The USMC has other thoughts about this (30mm) but you'll have to wait until my first Patch Post for 2012 to find out why.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../ac-130u-4.htm Great overview of the issue at hand and at the bottom is the reason I started the thread in the first place.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-a-time-03023/ Detailed background on the project.
http://www.af.mil/information/factsh...et.asp?fsID=71

A1. ADD: USA/AC-130H SPECTRE/JAN 1998 - DEC 2020/Use USA UNIT 564for the base./These never stopped flying and are in service (8) for the foreseeable future. This "new" unit is at least electronically comparable to the
current AC-130U (TI/GSR etc.). However and if time allows before the deadline, the AC-130 will be advanced further electronically and in weaponry (VIPER STRIKE ATGW) as well with information I have.
If not I'll present it for next year. It willbe next year.
http://www.af.mil/information/factsh...heet.asp?id=71
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ft/ac-130h.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-130-specs.htm
Comparison between SPECTRE and SPOOKY. Note weapons and ammo info.
http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/ac-130_spectre.pl As immediately above.
http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/...ack/ac130.html Gets into the electronic issue in greater detail.
http://spectre-association.org/historySpectre.htm A little history from the guys who flew them.
Pic:
Attachment 10792

Jets and Planes but...

A1. ADD: EQUADOR/CHEETAH C/JAN 2011/Use SOUTH AFICAN UNITS 154& 336 for the base./Retired by the SAAF in 2008, the planes have been maintained in storage for surplus sales purposes. Used JAN 2011 since Ecuador has been involved with these planes in both South Africa and at home for over a year.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20518/ Reports the buy.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...Ecudaor-05832/Does the same and details it as well. It'll show these to be upgraded versions of the CHEETAH C as well.
Pic:
Attachment 10793

A2. ADD: THAILAND/GRIPEN C (TRAF JAS 39C)/OCT 2011/Use SWEDISH UNITS 327- 329 for the base./These are brand new fighters. The GRIPEN C is the single seat 4th generation interceptor version.
http://www.deagel.com/Strike-and-Fig...000532001.aspx A good quick look.

A3. ADD: THAILAND/GRIPEN D (TRAF JAS 39D)/OCT 2011/Use SWEDISH UNITS NONE(?) for the base./As above except that the GRIPEN D is the two seat 4th generation fighter-bomber version with heavier payload.
http://www.deagel.com/Strike-and-Fig...000532002.aspx As above. The rest below cover the deal plus more for both.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...022/#more-4022 When you can get the full articles they're hard to beat.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20615/ SAAB comes to Thailand in partnership deal.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20612/ Thailand orders more GRIPEN C fighters.
http://www.saabgroup.com/en/Air/Grip...-for-Thailand/ Click on tabs at top for further info.
http://www.saabgroup.com/en/Air/Gripen-Fighter-System/ Homepage that'll allow you too find info on all current user nations.
http://www.saabgroup.com/en/Air/Grip...pecifications/
http://www.military-today.com/aircra..._39_gripen.htm
Though older, provides good background info note chart to left (Normal feature of site.) weapons section.
Pic:
Attachment 10794

D1. DELETE: RUSSIA/Su-47 BERKUT/UNIT 170/This is strictly a prototype/demonstrator craft.
Pic:
Attachment 10795

C1. CHANGE: RUSSIA/Su-50/UNIT 963/Name to either Su PAK FA or
Su-50 PAK FA vice Su-50./
This might avoid confusion with the T-50 that was the prototype and puts it in line with net searches as normally known simply as PAK FA.
Posts #3; #5 and #9.

Miscellaneous items to include a couple of deletions.

D1. DELETE: USA/MERCENARIES & MP SQUAD/UNITS 725 & 726 and
106 - 109 respectively./
I had hoped this search would've yielded more then this but I searched the game world pretty thoroughly and within the my thoughts on the matter as posted below.
Posts: APC thread Page 7; Posts #66 - #68.

1/23/2011 That's it!! :hide: :cheers:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

DRG January 24th, 2011 12:32 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 769207)
68.


ADD: NEW ZEALAND/NH 90 TTH A109 /-


THERE IS NO NEW ZEALAND IN THE GAME PAT



Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 769207)
68.
1/23/2011 That's it!! :hide: :cheers:

:yield:

now go a take a nice Loooooooooooong break please and remind me never to say " I guess that's about it........" ever again.....:wave:

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 24th, 2011 09:33 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
Sorry that was a breakdown in my notes. I missed the "crib note" to myself :doh: not to post it here. After the "push" over the last week and a halve and my last two weekends off, I just wanted to get it done as discussed and early and it got by. My apolizies and sorry for the inconvenience. It's back to the news.

Regards,
Pat

DRG January 27th, 2011 08:46 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 769203)
[C10.

Change: UKRAINE/OPLOT/UNITS 061-063/Add 9K119M REFLEX (NATO Des. AT-11 SNIPER-B) 6 Missiles. Noticed from refs that ATGW load has no affect on conventional ammo loads from refs. Must be due to size that addition of these doesn’t take up that much room as compared to conventional rounds. Am under the impression from further looking into other countries platforms this is just about a "universal truth" across the board.
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84armament.php
http://www.pmulcahy.com/tanks/ukrainian_tanks.html
See bottom of the page. And yes I saw the number if it is 100% correct, however six works as that's what's in the game now for the T-84 tanks as well.

Pat, the Morozov reference you provided clearly states

Quote:


The Oplot has a total of 40 rounds of separate loading ammunition (projectile and charge) of which 28 rounds are placed in the automatic loader............< snip >.........The missiles are stowed in the automatic loader in the same way as conventional ammunition.
so the missiles are not added to the ammo total they are PART OF the ammo total.


Don

DRG January 27th, 2011 10:08 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 769203)
[M3. MOD: USA/BRADLEY/JAN 2011/UNITS 006, 305-306, 309, 655, 664, 666 (Yikes!) & 668/ As in the game add a new tech ERA/ARA package and upgrades below.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...835/#more-2835 Please note APR 06 '09 & SEP 22 '08 as these affect the above units. Others in the game were out of service by 2008 - 2009.

Pat......... "Others in the game were out of service by 2008 - 2009"

When is 006 OOS ?? looks like 1995 to me

and 655 ?? Looks like 1989 to me as does 664

In the end you're going to get 2 new Bradleys with the upgrade ERA package

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 28th, 2011 02:32 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
Sorry for not responding sooner, dealing with the issues of "observers" at work recently. Not afraid to admit my errors and item 1. might be a teaching moment for others new to interpreting the "table" of info shown for a particular unit in Mobhack.
1. I understand it has to be done the way shown for weapons slots, what I didn't realize or better, make the connection, is that though all shell types were broken down by AP, HE etc. and with how many shells make up each, it is only part of the sum total of ammo if ATGWs are equipped as well. Though listed separately they will be combined with the shell count to get to that units total ammo load-out. So the OPLOT will have a combination of shells equal to 34 + 6 ATGW for a total of 40.
Got it.

2. That was just plain stupid on my part, I read the :censor: month as the year near as I can tell-sorry. Thanks for the gain though, at least the info was good enough (Small victory.) for the addition.

Maybe I need a day job like most normal people?

Thanks for not blasting me out of the water to badly, had enough to deal with other places earlier tonight. And people have said life will be better after a military career, I need to move that "censor" smiley down here as well!?!

Regards,
Pat

DRG January 28th, 2011 08:39 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
No problem Pat. The info you provide is generally clear enough just occasionally things get a little mixed up which isn't surprising given the mass of data we both end up sifting through and that you are relatively new to MOBHack

I'm slowly hacking my way through it entering data and building new Icons where applicable. Good thing I'm retired. I used to have to work this into normal work schedule.

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 29th, 2011 02:00 PM

I will be on hiatus with the "news" unless something earth shattering comes up. It's time to start on Part 1 of 3 Patch Posts for next year as discussed with the boss to avoid him having to :yield: and me having to :hide: as the info was compressed into 3 months for the last patch. But it was a more successful campaign then I could have hoped for, thanks Don, Andy and everyone else.
What to expect:
1. It'll be ref heavy, as expected by most.
2. There will be some items revisited based mostly on the fact I didn't understand Mobhack unit utilities in the earlier posts that gave Don a headache at times and he just plain ran out of time on those items, mostly from the MBT section.
3. At least with the first Post a very light spattering to cover the MBT, APC, SP&SPAA and other threads. Just not much happening there.
4. It will be avaition heavy due to the news surrounding China and Venezuela and how it's affecting their neighbors. Also with mods to existing units that I just ran out of time with myself.

I apolize in advance to everyone, as you see most of my posting is done after work and when not on my days off. Please as I asked in the very first Post of this thread I need to limit contact on these Posts to Don and Andy not out of disrespect to anyone out there but for the sake of time management and to maintain my focus as things have changed in the last few weeks for me at work. So with CINCLANTHOMEs blessing (Sort of!?!) I hope to have this first one posted by the end of June.
In the meantime I recommend the following defence news sites:
http://www.army-technology.com/
http://www.defpro.com/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/


THANKS EVERYONE!

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 6th, 2011 03:33 PM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
Don,
A couple of questions for you when you get the chance.

1. What TI/GSR value do you typically assign to a modern (Circa 2002/2003 with upgrades during installation process.) 2nd Gen integrated FCS Thermal Sight with full day/night capability?

The next is an opinion issue if we're thinking along the same lines in the interpretation of the data.

2. Does a government source "trump" all others? The issue at hand is I have many refs to support (One that's VERY thorough on the LEO 1 developmental timeline and who bought what with specific dates.) Here's the specific issue Turkey LEO 1A1 (Unit 033.) many say the Turks didn't buy this one until much later (If at all.) but, actually bought the LEO 1A1A1 with improved armor protection. The government source only refs the LEO 1A1 and 1A4 (Simplification of model designations?) for modernization. Providing my best sources for your opinion (Note: Based on the purchase dates I'm personally leaning towards the 1A1A1 vice 1A1.) or I'll carry on and submit to the patch what I have, which ever way you wish me to proceed for #2.
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/projects/...d1A1A1A4T.aspx
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product152.html

See under Variants LEO 1A1A1, 1A3 & 1A4 (These were designated Leopard T1.) near bottom see Turkey where the LEO 1A1A1 deal is mentioned.

Thanks!

Regards,
Pat

DRG June 7th, 2011 07:46 AM

Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
 
1- 40

2- NO SOURCE should be considered infalible. If there is a wide range of opinion there's probably a reason for it ( like the basic info isn't very good to begin with )

In that case we pick a reasonable date then wait and see who complains then take that info and decide if it's worthwhile changing or not



Don


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