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-   -   Ukraine 2021(?) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=52690)

MarkSheppard March 8th, 2022 05:48 PM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 851731)
What seemed odd about that report from the start was they ( theoretically ) would not have had them all that long but reported 700 didn't work...... that's a lot of missiles flying around. I realize there are a lot of targets but still, it seems odd in that short of time it would be known that out of 2700 reported that they PLANNED to send on March 3 that it would be known in so short a time that 700 failed to fire

It doesn't add up

military stuff gets issued in batches and lot numbers, all of which have serials. Ukraine could have encountered a "failure to fire" rate that was unacceptably high in some batches of SA-7s sent to them by Germany, and unilaterally decided that those entire batches are to be considered "bad", rather than try and take the time to figure out which ones may still work.

Mobhack March 8th, 2022 05:59 PM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 851731)
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 851722)

Ashamed about the STRELA's if true, they at least might've been effective to a degree against the Russia helicopters.

What seemed odd about that report from the start was they ( theoretically ) would not have had them all that long but reported 700 didn't work...... that's a lot of missiles flying around. I realize there are a lot of targets but still, it seems odd in that short of time it would be known that out of 2700 reported that they PLANNED to send on March 3 that it would be known in so short a time that 700 failed to fire

It doesn't add up

Apparently if you do the long-term service check for those missiles (which has been now done after the pull-out from long storage it would seem) it involves a full strip down to the motor core component level. Also a very critical part seems to be the ejection/launching charge as well.

Look inside these parts and if you see cracks in the solid fuel, then it is toast - so back to the factory or (since that is not possible here) - off to the bin with it.

(From some discussion I read somewhere on t'inernet - maybe tanknet forums?)

MarkSheppard March 8th, 2022 06:05 PM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 851736)
How is everyone adjusting for the dismal performance of Russian armor in UA? I've lowered quite a bit of numbers, but I can't quite get the APS to give me any flexibility. Breakdowns I can't seem to influence either.

Crossposted from another thread:

I wouldn't go so far as to demand active protection system (APS) changes.

I've looked into this myself as I have a Ukraine scenario pushed out.

From photographic evidence of abandoned/captured T-90A Vladimirs in Ukraine, they have been equipped with the Shtora APS Countermeasure system which includes two IR Dazzler/Jammers, plus a smoke grenade system integrated with early warning systems.

This level of APS does NOT include active counter-munitions; and in playtests, it provides protection against Javelin by degrading missile accuracy, but doesn't make T-80s invulnerable.

The Russians have been "testing" next generation APS (Arena-M and Afganit) which include active counter-munitions on and off since the early 2000s; but nothing has been procured in numbers -- I guess we all know where the money for that went, to oligarch dachas and mega yachts.

Karagin March 8th, 2022 10:06 PM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
Did anyone notice we are not seeing the T-14s being used in Ukraine?

DRG March 9th, 2022 04:14 AM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
SPECULATION there a plenty of other tanks available that have been in service for some time that crews are fully trained on. The T-14 is still undergoing field trials (IIRC).

Yes, this would be a good place to do "field trials" but OTOH you wouldn't really want to take the chance that one, or more might be destroyed or break down and be captured. It would be quite a propaganda coup for Ukraine to show a destroyed one to the world

Plus I suspect ( more speculation) that this "'special military operation' " was expected to be over quickly and bringing them into it was thought unnecessary.

Aeraaa March 9th, 2022 06:11 AM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karagin (Post 851743)
Did anyone notice we are not seeing the T-14s being used in Ukraine?

I can hardly see T90s, let alone T14s.

Karagin March 9th, 2022 09:34 AM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeraaa (Post 851747)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karagin (Post 851743)
Did anyone notice we are not seeing the T-14s being used in Ukraine?

I can hardly see T90s, let alone T14s.

Seen claims of T90s running around, but as I said we don't see their "super" tanks doing all they claimed and DRG points out the big issue, this wasn't supposed to drag on or at least not be a mess.

DRG March 9th, 2022 09:56 AM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karagin (Post 851749)
Seen claims of T90s running around, but as I said we don't see their "super" tanks doing all they claimed and DRG points out the big issue, this wasn't supposed to drag on or at least not be a mess.

Yes a mess indeed and thinking that in the planning for this "special military operation" the deaths of two Major Generals wasn't expected.....Sukhovetsky first and recently Gerasimov

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...inistry-claims

Quote:

The intelligence arm of the Ukrainian defence ministry said Maj Gen Vitaly Gerasimov, chief of staff of the 41st Army, had been killed outside the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, along with other senior officers.The investigative journalism agency Bellingcat said it had confirmed Gerasimov’s death with a Russian source.
Bad enough to lose two senior officers but the Ukrainian Defence ministry is also reported to be claiming

Quote:

what it claimed was a conversation between two Russian FSB officers discussing the death and complaining that their secure communications were no longer functioning inside Ukraine.

IF that is all true it does not paint a very good picture but the most important part of that is "IF that is all true"

If you want to mess with the other side's military intelligence then having two guys talking over unsecured communication is a great way to find out if that communication is being monitored because you know a death like that would be reported


Then the next question is what are the Ukrainians ( or their supporters ) doing that is negating Russian secure transmissions and we may never know

Pibwl March 9th, 2022 11:50 AM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 851731)
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 851722)

Ashamed about the STRELA's if true, they at least might've been effective to a degree against the Russia helicopters.

What seemed odd about that report from the start was they ( theoretically ) would not have had them all that long but reported 700 didn't work...... that's a lot of missiles flying around. I realize there are a lot of targets but still, it seems odd in that short of time it would be known that out of 2700 reported that they PLANNED to send on March 3 that it would be known in so short a time that 700 failed to fire

It doesn't add up

When this subject appeared on 4 March, Strelas had not been sent by that date, and only German Spiegel magazine revealed (what for?...), that according to Waffenamt (or something similar) report, probably only around 2000 of 2700 are useful. By that date there was no decision taken to send them. Bundeswehr answered anyway, that all equipment would be verified before sending.

Pibwl March 9th, 2022 11:55 AM

Re: Ukraine 2021(?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeraaa (Post 851747)
I can hardly see T90s, let alone T14s.

At least 14 T-90 were lost according to https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...wrtv6kT1iUSBdA


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