.com.unity Forums

.com.unity Forums (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/index.php)
-   TO&Es (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=108)
-   -   British Forces since 2000 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=51108)

IronDuke99 February 11th, 2016 08:31 AM

British Forces since 2000
 
Just a few points about British Forces since 2000, for the people who run the game to consider, maybe for the next update...

Mortar platoons in the British Army and Royal Marines are now eight rather than six 81mm tubes. 60mm mortars are also available, including as a company weapon on occasion.

Spike LR was purchased from Israel in time for the second Gulf War against Iraq and was also used in Afghanistan. Initially it was on a M113. These days Spike LR is 'core force' with the British forces, but mounted on a four tube towed launcher and mostly assigned, it seems, to the Royal Artillery.

I don't know about other people but I think F35 in the game seems a bit too vulnerable to enemy SAM's given it has stealth technology, at least from in front, when carrying internal weapons...

The two new, very large, Royal Navy QE Class Aircraft Carriers, largest warships ever built for the RN, are due to carry a normal air wing of 24 F35B and could carry, in a important war situation, up to 36, in addition to helicopters. Aircraft maximum, all types, is said to be at least 56.

Hope this proves useful to the good blokes who keep this game up to date...

Mobhack February 11th, 2016 09:29 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
You haven't opened up the UK OOB have you?

Mortar platoons have been a moveable feast since the 80's. It was 9 in 3 sections of 3, for a while at least in mech bns. It was never quite clear if light role bns followed the mech establishment. TA bns, would naturally be their own specific case.

(Our Bn, 1/51 Highland had 2 mortar platoons (not the regulation 1), each of 4 81s, in the 1970s. And also we had 2 AT platoons, one with towed MOBAT and One portee WOMBAT, 4 of each. But 1/51 was a weirdly organised bn destined for rear defence of BAOR areas, with about 5 rifle coys, 2 English-based (Liverpool Scottish and the London Scottish - who had their very own tartan!))

60mm mortar - see unit #412. 60mm are X3 radio code, as they are "golf bag" items, issued temporarily to replace 81s as required by particular mission. So made available for human use only. If you think you should have 8, then buy another section after the platoon.

Spike, see "Exactor" #691, 692.

IronDuke99 February 11th, 2016 09:51 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
I have merely posted what I have been told, and read, recently including on ARRSE, etc, etc, etc. i believe it to be reasonably accurate.

British TA battalions often had odd orbats, depending on recruitment, task, etc.

8 tubes in a mortar platoon does now seem standard across all infantry battalions of all types.

Spike/Extrator latest I can find: UK purchased in excess of 600 missiles and 14 M113 platforms around 2006/7. As M113 was not a UK vehicle it proved a problem to service and, these days, Spike LR is mainly used on what looks like a four tube towed launcher (photos available on the internet) mainly assigned to the RA, who use it for long range engagements that are accurate and with limited collateral damage.

F35, in the game, still seems extremely vulnerable to enemy SAM systems to me.

IronDuke99 February 11th, 2016 10:05 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
PS can you give me a link to 691 and 692 please?

DRG February 11th, 2016 10:34 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Open the Brit OOB with MOBHack and look at unit 691 and 692 and you will find the Exactors or start the game anytime after April 2007 and they are in the "Exactor" formation under "Armour"

DRG February 11th, 2016 10:41 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
.....and the icon for the "Exactor 2" is really just a placeholder as we had nothing concrete to work with when it was entered but I have something better now

IronDuke99 February 11th, 2016 10:48 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
As I said seems to be a four tube launcher (shown on a Pakistani military site, and one or two others) and it seems it is mainly a Royal Artillery weapon in UK Service accurate and unlikely to cause many civilian casualties.

DRG February 11th, 2016 10:50 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
1 Attachment(s)
There's also this I'm following up on........BUT that may be a Korean unit.....still trying to get a translation





http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1455202225

IronDuke99 February 11th, 2016 10:55 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Interesting, British Special Forces( SAS and SBS) are almost always a special case in terms of weapons...

DRG February 11th, 2016 11:07 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
AH!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kpsrJKY994...NLOSspikes.jpg

Sandcat 4x4

BUT...it's unclear ATM if this is one idea being bandied about or something actually available for use. I don't think the towed launcher is anything but an step towards mounting it on a vehicle

IronDuke99 February 11th, 2016 11:23 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Towed launcher seems what UK will mainly use.

UK sees Spike as a very accurate Royal Artillery asset...

DRG February 11th, 2016 12:53 PM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
That may be but we've progressed beyond the Nebelwefer. Towing it around is fine for evaluation but it makes NO sense to put what is a very valuable asset that can easily fit into the back of a truck........on a trailer towed by a truck. And there seems to be exactly ONE photo of it on a trailer. That photo in post 8 does indeed seem to be a South Korean test but it shows just how small a vehicle it CAN fit into

scorpio_rocks February 11th, 2016 02:41 PM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
I see a lot of speculation (but unfortunatley no confirmation) of mounting the launcher on the Stormer (we have loads of 'em and it already has a trainable missile platform...)

Of course it is kinda irrelevant as they ought to be "off-map" assets anyway (?)

IronDuke99 February 11th, 2016 09:58 PM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
In British use Spike would seem to be mainly an off map artillery weapon in game terms. Although perhaps less so when used on a M113 in Iraq and in Afghanistan.

IronDuke99 February 11th, 2016 11:24 PM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Have to say that following, the latest upgrade, extractor/Spike is not on my copy of SPMBT, nor is it in the Mobhack editor.

whdonnelly February 12th, 2016 08:07 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Don,
Send me the link for the possible Korean vehicle. There are a couple of former Korean linguists here that would take a shot at translating it.
Will

DRG February 12th, 2016 08:55 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by whdonnelly (Post 832848)
Don,
Send me the link for the possible Korean vehicle. There are a couple of former Korean linguists here that would take a shot at translating it.
Will

It's not a Korean website.....I think it's Russian with reference to Korean interest and tests but I found another one with the same photo that has an English version

http://grimnir74.livejournal.com/5358525.html

scorpio_rocks February 12th, 2016 08:58 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IronDuke99 (Post 832847)
Have to say that following, the latest upgrade, extractor/Spike is not on my copy of SPMBT, nor is it in the Mobhack editor.


As DRG explained in post #5, If you are using the latest version (May2015 - check in info tab of OOB in Mobhack or V9.1 in game) the Exactor is there.

Unit #691 Exactor 1 - Spike ER on M113(Hafiz Tamuz)
Unit #692 Exactor 2 - Spike ER provisionally mounted on Coyote

Or use database check utility to find users of Spike ER in Brit OOB...

Or as Don suggested start a battle after April 07 and look in the armour menu for Exactor...

DRG February 12th, 2016 08:59 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IronDuke99 (Post 832847)
Have to say that following, the latest upgrade, extractor/Spike is not on my copy of SPMBT, nor is it in the Mobhack editor.

If you don't see it in you game or MOBHack you don't have the latest patch

Your game should report V9.1 and the info tab for the Brit OOB in MOBHack should read -----Version May 2015(C)2015 A.Gailey & The Camo Workshop


If it does not , you need to patch your game

EDIT.....Scorpio beat me to it by a minute:)

DRG February 12th, 2016 09:09 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
......and we are looking at ways to model this better in the game.....

IronDuke99 February 17th, 2016 07:09 PM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
It seems Challenger 2 MBT is going to get an upgrade to extend its service life out to about 2035, including improved turret systems and optics, but not a new gun (ie, it will retain the 120mm rifled L30A1). It remains to be seen if the upgrade will include any form of active anti tank missile defence, although The Royal Armoured Corps would certainly like this. The upgrades are expected to start in 2019. Not all the 227 British Challenger 2's will be upgraded.

Meanwhile two points on Chally 2 in the game. In addition to the coaxial chain gun and loaders AA MG, they can also carry a remote controlled 7.62 MG, or .50 MG or auto 40mm grenade launcher.

Challenger 2 also seems a little slow, especially off road, in the game to me.

DRG February 17th, 2016 10:30 PM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/challenger2

"The maximum speed by road is 59km/h and 40km/h cross country"

59 / 3 = 19.66666666666667 = 20 rounded up...same procedure for any vehicle

so by that source it's slow by one........ not something likely to stand out in game play but I will confirm that info and make the change if it's justified.

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/challenger_2.htm

<TABLE id=table52 borderColor=#cccccc cellPadding=0 width="100%" align=left border=0 abp="40"> <TBODY abp="41"> <TR abp="137"> <TD bgColor=#cccccc height=13 width="50%" align=center abp="138">Maximum road speed</TD> <TD bgColor=#ffffff height=13 vAlign=top width="50%" align=center abp="140">56 km/h</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


56/3= 18.66666666666667 = 19 which is what's in the game now so I guess it depends on the source

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 18th, 2016 03:06 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Maybe the following will be of some use though it appears the speed is about right @ 59kph(37mph)/40kph(25mph) from the following refs. Some speed sacrificed in the name of protection not too bad a trade off. But the difference is obvious in the power plant, it's not a turbine driven engine. As a side note the "E" model had a significant electronics upgrade to include the gunners stabilized sight w/LR with a range of 200m -10,000m (660ft. - 6.2mi.) that's pretty darn good. I was thinking the "TES" would be the right candidate for the expanded TI/GSR 50 originally, but I believe the newer "E" model is w/o a doubt the best choice, though as the game currently stands it would be the earliest to achieve the mark by almost 5 yrs. with the LECLERC not very far behind. Anyway...
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/23236.aspx
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/mo...allenger-2.php


Regards,
Pat

IronDuke99 February 18th, 2016 10:11 PM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
There has been some recent talk around in some, generally non Tanker, sections of the British Army about Challenger 2 getting long in the tooth.

In fact it probably still has the best armour of any MTB. The 120mm rifled gun is also still fine, although ammo stocks are now limited (although some new rounds seem have been made in Belgium for the gun) The upgrade for Challenger 2 will include looking at sourcing new ammo stocks.

Challenger 2 lacks an active anti-tank missile defence (something like the Trophy system used by Israel) but this probably could be fitted in an upgrade. It would certainly be worth it if it is to remain in service out to 2035.

After that the smart money seems to be on UK getting involved with the USA or, perhaps, Germany for an ultimate replacement.

With regard to speed 59 kmh seems right. It is commonly said that Warrior IFV's have had problems keeping up with both Challenger and Challenger 2 off road.

IronDuke99 February 19th, 2016 12:38 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
FRES/Ajax.

Ajax along with Ares (APC) and Athena (command) Apollo, Atlas and Argus (assorted engineer types) will replace most of the CVR(T) types (but not Stormer) starting in 2017.

Ajax will carry a 40mm auto gun (as will be used on Warrior 2000) while the APC's will lack a turret but be able to carry about four men each, besides crew.

The British Army is keen to get 8x8 wheeled vehicles for the new planned 'Strike Brigades' but there is nothing firm on what vehicle they will buy (French, US or German most likely) or when...

IronDuke99 February 19th, 2016 02:28 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
RAF transport aircraft: The eventual fixed wing transport force will be

8 C17 Globmaster
14 C130J Super Hercules
22 A400M Atlas

Both the Super Hercules and Atlas will be able to drop paras.

Imp February 22nd, 2016 03:11 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
Quote:

With regard to speed 59 kmh seems right. It is commonly said that Warrior IFV's have had problems keeping up with both Challenger and Challenger 2 off road
This is just a case of the game not being able to rate offroad performance vs road I think.
Sure I read more than once the Challenger has very good off road suspension & hence is more capable off road than one might expect.
Same thing I think holds true for the Merkava on the certain terrain it will outperform seemingly faster units.
This will apply to many other vehicles as well not all 4X4 are born equal but it has little impact & is not possible to fix.

IronDuke99 March 31st, 2016 09:24 AM

Re: British Forces since 2000
 
The British Army (and Royal Marines) faces the problem that on the one hand large scale armoured battle is back on the agenda after years of counter insurgency stuff, because some members of NATO (and some of the EU, mainly the same nations) seem to want to confront Russia in her own -for example- Baltic backyard while there is a big public unwillingness to put troops on the ground after long -hardly winning- wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (in my own view the west lost in Afghanistan as soon as we set a rough date to withdraw).

Can the West defeat the IS in the middle east just from the air and with special forces? Well history must make us doubt this, especially when so many Western nations have a, relatively small, IS 'fifth column' within their own Muslim populations.

Now there is the modern military conundrum...


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2021, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.