Re: MBT's
 

Didn't see this one here mentioned:
Janes: Swedish armour set for USD300 million upgrade

FO, AA and recovery CV90 venhicles will also receive thermal image cameras to CV9040C IFV standard as well as fire control system updates.

On Swedish army site (in Swedish) there's not much additional information: https://www.fmv.se/sv/Nyheter-och-pr...-stridsfordon/

Edit: Found a more detailed link even though it's just a blog post: http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspo...-upgrades.html

Re: MBT's
 

Well I so I saw something about the OPLOT/OPLOT-M on the patch release thread. Sometimes people can't seem to get behind the idea that a "lesser" country can develop or if you will, build upon and improve an existing tank. The numbers I'll post later from a well respected tank site we maybe put some of that in context dealing with Rha values against certain types of ammo. Remember for us we'll "never really know the truth" we can only deal with the data we can get, which for the MERKAVA is really nothing. My comparison numbers will be OPLOT to ABRAMS. I can promise you, those numbers will surprise some out here.

For now this is all the time I have...
http://www.army-technology.com/featu...-battle-tanks/
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/...ttle_tanks.htm

Best I can do for now-work calls!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I doubt that any military in the world tells more of the truth about kit and what it can do than they have to. Of course some will under, and others over, state.

Estimates are often the best one can do with in service stuff. FASTBOAT TOUGH, and the game seems to do a pretty good job on the whole.

Re: MBT's
 

T90MS Tagil is less protected than T90A now. I think you added some protection to T90A in the new patch and forgot to add to T90MS tagil :)))

FASTBOAT, I'm not saying that a less developed country (technologically in MBT area Ukraine is not less developed than Russia) can't develop a modern tank, I'm saying that the data of the frontal arc is not correct.

T84 first version was basically a T80UD with some adds (same chassis and turret base armor)

T84 Oplot M Is a "new" tank but the added protection is basically some added "composite" armor ( rubber between steel and alloy) and Duplet ERA (we can guess it's on par with T90MS and Armata, so A10 in game value) and is very very way behind Leopard and Abrams modern armor.

So I think that in T84 Oplot armor value must go down and ERA must go up.

Here some photos that justify what I'm saying ( ERA and T80 same chassis and base armor)

http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/in...lat-and-other/

Re: MBT's
 

I'm not totally disagreeing with you on the OPLOT/OPLOT-M however, it's just in my nature to get specifics. To suggest just the term MERKAVA is a very "broad stroke" and generality given how many variants of the MERKAVA tank were still in service at the time the OPLOT was being developed. I will grant you that unless given further new information to the contrary that I really don't expect to happen, compared to the MERKAVA 4/4b if the OPLOT/OPLOT-M are on par or better we do have an issue to address and your conclusion to reduction of steel armor and increase in ERA I believe would be very valid. I did post in here a couple+ years ago that Russia openly accused the Ukraine of industrial spying in stealing "very sensitive" secrets linked to a new ERA it was developing. Well folks I don't know about you but the only new tank the Russians have developed that would require new ERA in the above time frame was the ARMATA.

I'll still post the data I have as I feel it won't be a wasted exercise and some might find it interesting. But I find it curious that on the same token I can find data on the OPLOT family turret protection levels "all day long" but none on the rest, very much like the MERKAVA where so far I can't find anything on their armor protection levels. No surprise there but, maybe I'm just looking for it in all the wrong places.

You can see the initial input of the OPLOT-M and OPLOT improvements in both this thread and the PATCH Thread (It'd be easier to find there I believe.) if interested to see where our heads were at during that time.

Have to get ready for work-have a great day/or evening!

Regards,
Pat

Re: MBT's
 

Actually, we have quite a lot of information on MERKAVA.

Photos attached were taken in 1993.

Re: MBT's
 

Final half of 1993 MERKAVA Pictures.

Re: MBT's
 

It's because UKR was/is/ trying to sell OPLOT internationally for the last decade or two; so they had to reveal broad performance specifications in order to make the sales.

Israel, on the other hand, has no interest in exporting the Merkava; so estimates of armor have not been publicized widely.

So essentially, if you want to make Merkava estimates; you need to actually do a lot of number crunching and analysis of known items about it; and drawings/photographs of it.

Re: MBT's
 

Case in point: I can get detailed specifications, including cutaway drawings of the armor layout showing what types of armor material and where along with estimates of HEAT resistance for a 1980s M-60 Patton upgrade that was proposed by a defense contractor in a JANES' affiliated book published about 1983; since they were hoping to sell the tank (or advertise their experience in armor design).

Re: MBT's
 

Look to POST #282 under the "NEWS" section and then see Israel that's from 2014. I did also post the news from 2012 when the deal was first considered for Columbia. Everything will eventually be for sale, Israel faced a financial crunch and was/is looking for a way to finance the development of the MERKAVA replacement. A stop gap and further development of the MERKAVA 4, of course was the MERKAVA 4b.

Don has mentioned this himself, but, when the data is "shaking" or incomplete there remains only one really good and tangible source for us to consider, battlefield performance. In most cases we can get very good data on items like AT weapons because everyone is selling them including Israel with the LAHAT for example. We generally can start putting the jigsaw puzzle together at that point using what we have to include the pictures etc. etc. it's not an exact science but, I'll put our time, effort and work that we put into these things against ANYONE else out there (Though on the whole I feel Paul Macaulay does a pretty good job as well in this area.) in equipment game "construction" if you will. This includes the many times I've contacted certain MOD's and museums to get answers we needed. The only real failure there was in dealing with the French over a certain piece of artillery I'd prefer no one bring up (As I sorely remember it well.) that we spent over three years trying to find. Finally Don and I took what we had and I feel came up with a very good conclusion to the matter.

For me these truisms remain the same no WIKI anything, no Blogs with the exception of a rare couple i.e. Arm Chair General however they are taken by me with a "huge grain of salt" that though have at times lead to more traditional sources I've missed in my own searches for the "truth" (Couldn't resist the line from one of my favorite shows! ;)) and the most important I feel has helped me enjoy a very high % of successful equipment submissions into the game, multi-sourced corroborated references which each submission.

I mentioned years ago in the Patch Thread, that basically I prepare myself as the Defense Attorney for each item I've submitted while, Don is the Prosecutor, Jury and Judge. I wouldn't have that relationship any other way and hope it doesn't change. The day I'm not challenged in some way in that arena is the day I promise I'll stop submitting equipment, for the challenge represents a "checks and balances" to the work, value added for the game and players and when insistent a wonderful "check the ego at the door" to see the light. All of this is in the Patch Thread so people can have a window into the process (Another reason why I ask no one else submits any comments during the submission phase until I repost the equipment into it's "home thread".) that quite frankly I didn't see or understand when I and Don started on "our journey" out here.

Oh yeah this is the MBT Thread so I leave you with a "One World One OOB" tank something plus a bonus for you inventive Campaign/Scenario types...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2...e_2705151.html
http://www.janes.com/article/59701/u...itionary-force

And Mark I don't know how this stuff stays in my head once I've "touched" a topic except to say it just does like at the beginning of this again the topic not the Page/Post#'s-I wouldn't even want to be that good!?! :rolleyes: Just be glad your not CINCLANTHOME because she has to deal with it almost everyday!?! :eek:

I little tired, starting to ramble and have to get some sleep for tomorrow is my TGIF. :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt: