Chinese OOB
 

I believe that the Chinese OOB is basically quite OK but nevertheless some points need to be worked over - while I myself have to rely on open-source info from sinodefence.com and the like, which might not be up to your standards, these are some of the points I'd like to bring up:

1.) no UAVs at all in the current OOB - have a look at this list: http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/uav/default.asp and please include something like the Russian Shmel for convenience...

2.) Type 99 amphibious tank - Unit 476 - is a common mis-designation and should be called Type 63A - see http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type63a.asp - to avoid confusion with the

3.) Type 99 MBT - the latest Chinese MBT and THE future MBT of the PLA (so far doesn't exist in the OOB) - is based on the Type-98 but the latter was not mass-produced, even though it did enter service; the Type 99 is being mass-produced and can be seen on Chinese TV when they hold maneuvers regularly.

4.) Type 97 IFV, already in service since the late 90s- obviously based on the BMP-3 which, allegedly, has been imported in the 90s in small nimbers for trial and showing a similar configuration

...and many more things if you look at this in detail - the Chinese OOB is IMHO one of the more 'important' ones and just like the whole country, its military is changing fast...

Re: Chinese OOB
 

Noted and corrected

Don

Re: Chinese OOB
 

gj, thanks.

Re: Chinese OOB
 

Chinese OOB does seem to be somewhat under-reasearched, it will be good if we can get a few blokes to work on it. I will volunteer if there is indeed such a venture.

Re: Chinese OOB
 

Good to hear someone's interested and willing! I'd be, too, but my problem is the lack of good sources - how about you?

Re: Chinese OOB
 

Well, what I can think of right now are Globalsecurity, Sinodefence and Janes, but I would assume that you know all of them, other than those, you will have to look into Chinese sources, like http://military.china.com/zh_cn/, or sites for magazines like http://news.sina.com.cn/jczs/ http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn/nz/bqzs/index.shtml http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn/tank/index.html http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn/nz/xdjs/index.shtml
I can do the translations if you like.

Re: Chinese OOB
 

I volunteer for some help; since I have some ideas for:

China vs Taiwan (hypothetical invasions)

China vs North Korea (Chinese analysts are now talking openly of the possibility of having to invade North Korea, with the US coming up from the South as part of a joint operation, if Little Kim does go insane.)

Problems involving Chinese Kit: A lot; because the chinese really do not release any good public information about a weapon or system, until it's been in service for about five years; witness their recent "unveiling" of the J-10.

Overall Equipment Nomenclature: Apparently, according to a Chinese Friend of mine in Hong Kong; the designations like ZSL-92; and ZTZ-99 are the actual designations used within military units; the "Type 92" and such so commonly heard are abbreviations of those official designators for easier use, rather than having to remember "ZSL-92 or ZTZ-99".

By the way, ZTZ, and such might sound completely random. It's actually not. In Chinese, it those acronyms make sense.

For example, according to my friend:

PHL-03 means : Pao, Huozhan, Lun in Chinese, which translates to: Artillery, Rockets, Wheeled. Apparently in the mid 1990s these descriptive acronyms supplanted the earlier "Type" designations which still see use for convience's sake. I guess even the Chinese got a bit caught up in the acronym race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Stuff like WZ 501, et al are just the manufacturer's internal designations (like how the F-15 was Model 199B within McDonnell Douglas). These designations primarily get used when the manufacturers are flacking them for exports to other countries. For example; the Chinese Type 59 MBT's manufacturer's designation is WZ-120.

-----------

Changes/Corrections:

Name Change: Units 024 to 026 - Type 88C/96 is really ZTZ-96. It all depends on your preference; do you want to keep it as the Type 88C; or by it's redesignated number, ZTZ-96 (Type 96)?

New Unit: ZTZ-96G (Type 96G); basically, Type 88C (ZTZ-96) with Arrow-shaped ERA on hull front and turret. First Appeared in 2006, and seems to have replaced the earlier ZTZ-96 on production lines. Picture of it

Name Change:
Unit 030 - Type 98 is actually ZTZ-98.
Unit 031 - Type 99 is actually ZTZ-99.
Unit 032 - Type 99+ is actually ZTZ-99+.

Deletion: Units 027, 028, and 029: Type 90-II; This tank did not enter full production for the Chinese Military, it losing out to the ZTZ-98 (Type 98). However, development of it did continue for export, and it finally was produced in Pakistan as the Al-Khalid. I suppose you might keep these in; as 700+ cost units, to represent the possibility of a few units actually being produced for trials, and then handed off to some out of the way armor unit.

New Units: ZBD-2000 Amphibious Vehicle Family it appears to be a hydroplaning type amphibious APC for use by the PLA Marine Corps; and two variants are currently in service; a IFV variant with a 30mm Cannon; and a tank variant with a 105mm gun.

105mm Gun Tank Version
30mm IFV Variant

It seems to have entered large scale service from the image below; so a good case can be made for including it:

Train of ZBD-2000 IFVs somewhere in China

New Unit: ZLC-2000 Airborne IFV (also known as WZ 506) developed by NORINCO; in service with PLAAF Abn Corps since 2003; is completely Chinese designed; no similiarities to BMD-3. Three versions made; IFV, ATGM (HJ-8), and a Command and Control Version. Main Armament of the IFV version is a 30mm cannon similar to Russian 30mm cannon; a HJ-73C ATGM launcher with 3 spare missiles, and a 7.62mm Coaxial MG. 8 ton combat weight, carries 5 troops.

Image of ZLC-2000

---End of First Part---

Re: Chinese OOB
 

Unit Name/Date Corrections
Unit 066 - WZ-551 - Name really is is ZSL-92A - Entered PLA Service in 1997, not 1990.

Unit 067 - WZ-551A - Really is ZSL-92 - Entered PLA Service in 1995, not 1992. Cannon is the 25mm ZPT-90; with 400 rounds. Coaxial weapon is 7.62mm Type 86 MG with 1,000 rounds.

Unit 232 - Type WZ 551 FO - Name really is ZSL-92 FO; not much is known about it; here's a picture of it. I suppose it entered service probably in 1998-1999, following the straight APC versions, not in 1988.

Deletions:
Unit 505 - WZ 551 HJ-8
Unit 506 - WZ 551 HJ-8E

The HJ-8 armed version was a prototype only. Never entered service.

Unit Name/Date/Loadout Corrections
Unit 507 - WZ 551 HJ-9 really is ZSL-92 HJ-9; date of entry of service is 1999; it was observed for the first time in the 1 October 1999 parade. It carries 12 missiles, not 8.

Deletions:
Unit 292 - Type WZ 551M - No evidence of a ZSL-92 derived mortar carrier in PLA service.

Unit Name/Date Corrections
Unit 065 - Type WZ 523 - This did not enter service with the PLA; it's only service was a prototype driven during a 1984 parade to celebrate the anniversary of the PRC's founding. However, it's slot (and icon) can be used to represent the ZFB-91 evolution of the design; which replaced the 12.7mm AAMG with a weapons turret containing a 35mm AGL (normally filled with tear gas rounds); and a 7.62mm MG with 1,500 rounds. Was produced for PLA Garrison units in Macau and Hong Kong in the early 1990s; and remains in service as far as I know. Undoubtly it's 35mm AGL can also fire HE shells, not just tear gas....

Image of the ZFB-91 Internal Security Vehicle

--End of Second Part--

Re: Chinese OOB
 

Deletions:
Units 062 and 430: Type WZ 501 - China only got a few examples of the BMP-1 via Egypt in the late 70s, and these were used for reverse-engineering purposes.

Unit Name/Date Corrections
Units 056 and 434: Type WZ 501 - Really is "Type 86". Was accepted into PLA service in 1992; before then, only a few small batches had been made for testing.

Deletion
Unit 068: Type YW 309 - This was only a NORINCO prototype.

Unit Name/Date Corrections
Unit 063: Type WZ 501A - Really is "Type 86-I"; entered service in I think 1995~; give the PLA time enough to realize that the Type 86's BMP-1 armament won't cut it. Image Here.

New Unit:
Type 86B: Basically take a Type 86 IFV and improve it for amphibious operations, mainly consisting of general overall detail changes, including an external swim vane (probably worth 1 point of armor on the frontal slope); and a modified outboard engine hung off the back. You also get a spiffy blue themed paint job. Currently being used by PLA Marine Corps as interim vehicles until they get the new Amphibious tank/IFVs. Photo Here.

New Unit:
Type 86G: The PLA is replacing their original Type 86s with this new version, which has an indigenious turret containing a 30mm cannon and HJ-73 ATGM launcher. Photo Here.

Unit Name/Date Corrections
Unit 058 - Type YW 531 - Really "Type 63A"; entered service in 1970, not 1967.

New Units: Apparently, in the early 1990s; the Type 63G and 63K improved variants (YW 531G and K) entered PLA service. No idea what was changed. Possibly improved road speed due to better engine?

Unit Name/Date Corrections
Unit 503 - YW 534 HJ-8 - Really "ZDF-89 HJ-8", entered service in 1990, not 1986

Unit Name Corrections
Unit 504 - YW 534 HJ-8E - Really "ZDF-89 HJ-8E"

Unit Name/Date Corrections
Unit 059 - Type YW-534 - Really "ZSD-89"; accepted for production in July 1990; not 1985.

---End of Part three---

Re: Chinese OOB
 

Question Don; would you accept a modified Chinese OOB done by me, if I documented my changes heavily, and gave you LBMs clearly labelled such as : ZSD-89.lbm so you could implement them in easily?