[Psitticine]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

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Originally posted by Psitticine:
My goodness, you're a grumbly young lad, aren't you?

Heehee. Thank you for that. Not sure if you noticed the where I seem to be the oldest person here.

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I did, and I'm glad you got that I meant that as a tension-breaker. Honestly, I was a bit surprised by your post, and I added that comment after a quick pre-post read-through, just in case I sounded angry instead of just startled. Still, I had my fingers crossed a bit when I posted.

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

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As far as "hooking" people, I think the demo is long enough to show people what the game has to offer and let them make an informed decision for themselves.

Understood. And probably quite true. Its certainly standard enough in the biz.

But the demo allowing full play was a point that made it easy to get people to try Dom 1 in the newsGroups. I think the Dom 1 demo was adequatly limited that it got people to buy the full Version if they liked the game. There werent alot of demo MP games running.

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I can see your point about full play, and I’m definitely not trying to argue against that in any respect. My perspective is that I think the new method will allow more and freer exploration of the game than a 30-day limit.

The turn-limit isn’t a one-time affair (and I think this is something I haven't expressed very well.) You can turn right around and start game after game, trying out different options to your heart's content, without any restriction save for not being able to play any given game forever. There’s quite enough time for players to get up into the more powerful spells and such, and when it comes to content, there weren’t any differences between the full Version and the beta-demo. It is also generous enough to allow you to at least reach the endgame on a smaller map, and quite possibly even win if you are good.

It really affects play on larger maps more than anything else, and while that’s not to say large map play isn’t important, I think it is also important to note that those are more often used for MP play, and PBEM games are more likely to be truncated by the time-limit than the turn-limit.

One thing that’s coloring my view is that I’ve had 30-day shareware expire on me before I’ve had a chance to really take it through all its paces, so I think I’d feel more limited in terms of exploration and trial ability with the time-limit than the turn-limit, but that’s obviously a personal thing and nothing I can really support with hard facts or statistics; its just the way things feel to me.

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

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When it comes to not replacing the full game, well, should it really be expected to?

Im not sure I follow that.....

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Well, in a nutshell, I was trying (unsuccessfully) to introduce what I said afterwords: that there should be a difference between a demo and the full game to prevent people who pay for the game from being short-changed.

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

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People deserve something for the money they pay and Illwinter deserves something for the work they've put in on the game.

I totally agree and have made the same speech often in the newsGroups.

(And just in case anybody is wondering, none of that money is going to me; I'm asking for nothing more than a great finished product for all the editing, beta-testing, and my trying to help out in this forum.)

I think this comment shows the similarity of our positions. It sounds so much like the things I often said over the Last 1.5 years in the newsGroups

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Yes, it definitely sounds like we both want the same thing: the best possible demo and the soundest future for the game.

I'm fairly new to Dominions, having been invited to join the beta-test and do the text editing based on my previous experience with Shrapnel. Still, I really appreciate a literate and intelligent game that really challenges me and am extraordinarily pleased to be a part of this project.

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

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I didn't say a word about the demo being limited in any way aside from a turn limit. I firmly believe people will be satisfied with the amount of game play the demo offers, and since it will be public sooner or later, those are words I am obviously willing to stand by when everybody has had a chance to judge it for themselves.

Thats probably true but everything has its pros and cons. I feel that the previous way the demo was done had alot of advantages. Im not sure that going to standard demo methods will be an improvement. OF course the new pricing could be a big factor. It might be a high enough price to make people stick with a full-game demo rather than pay for one that give them higher options.

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I guess all I can say is that, as a long-time gamer, I'd be happy with the demo as it is. I can't argue with the pros and cons thing, as it is very true, but I do think this is a good plan.

(Another post-read-through tack-on: something to keep in mind is that I don't have any info on the beta beyond what has been posted here and the trial of the beta-demo earlier. For all I know, it could actually turn out that they've already decided to go back to the time-limit. Maybe somebody from Illwinter or Shrapnel can confirm the plans for us.)