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Originally Posted by chrispedersen
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Originally Posted by Squirrelloid
The heroes aren't that good?
First of all, 7+ research i don't have to pay upkeep on is always good in my book.
Second, those Olm heroes you can get repeatedly can have W and/or E up to 5. That's some serious high-path casting power.
Finally, there're gems like the E5F2 Oracle with Reinvigoration 4 already built in. With an E9 bless and summon earth power thats reinvig *12*. And with E5, he'll literally cast all day.
What passes for good heroes if these don't qualify?
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The problem isn't the quality of the hero.
Even with a luck +3 its only a 6% chance to get one each turn. Its simply not worth the 120-200 design points. Plus, magic paths duplicate ones you already get.
Luck doesn't scale either. Sure, multiheros you can get forever.
But the other part of luck that you are paying 4 - tops out at 4 events. And there are iirc 2-3 heros. |
Hey, I'll take 4 good events every turn. Especially since the Order + Luck combination seems to generate large numbers of taxation events, and the Magic + Luck combination favors some of the truly high value cash events.
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I fail to see the value of a nature bless. Healing 2hp/trn is *not* that exciting, and low regeneration doesn't lead to that much lower of a wound rate. I'd rather have the +4 protection any day, especially since it'll make for some killer SCs. I'm hitting protection 40 at the end of year 1 on my Oracles after two rounds of blessing. Now that's defense.
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Rather like comparing apples and oranges - since you are talking about e9 vs n4. 360 design pts vs 80.
Prot 40 looks awesome. Still loses to a lightning bolt. Or petrify. Numbness. Slime. Curse of stones.
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Yes, any given tactic has counter tactics. Congratulations. How does nature help with that at all? And there are obvious counters to some of those (like Iron Will for petrify), and no need to counter others (seriously, curse of stones, vs. a mage SC with good MR?). But none of these objections are at all relevant unless a nature bless actually does something to answer those. The obscene protection is still something an earth bless gives that nature doesn't, and nature gives... 5% regen? OH yay. 2hp/trn.
You never answered my question - what does a nature bless give you that you need? How is it relevant? I *tried* it (F4E9N4, slightly worse scales, same army size). It didn't improve the performance of my units that I could notice.
(And E9 is only 292 design pts with the suggested pretender, whereas N4 is 122, so still more points, but you get so much more).
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Vs with my build I am typically building someothing link.. 8 sacred, 5 pales ones and 3 trogs.
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What are you doing with the sacreds turn 2 - do you prophetize your scout? (Doesn't seem worth it to me when you can have an H4 later). And 3 trogs don't feel very efficient. I'll try it, but i'm not sure why you think that's better than 8 trogs.
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Note on blessing:
You need Oracles or a prophet for divine bless. Your mages (especially earth readers with their low area bless) will miss some of your sacreds even if there's only *5* of them. Even if you repeatedly cast blessing. This leads to dead troops you can't afford. So oracles seem to be your only repeatable and viable bless chassis.
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Precision/2 -2. If your earth reader is smack dab in the middle of your sacreds he doesn't miss. Set them to bottom right, hold and attack. Set your earth reader to bless, bless, bless, earth grip earth grip. (or fright etc).[/quote]
Yeah, tried that. Missed the same guy all three times. Repeatedly. Earth Readers are utter fail at anything requiring aim.
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Earth meld would be great if you could hit anything with it. Precision what - 7? Not interested. Certainly not at the expense of really early Legions of Steel and forged bracers.
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Precision +3/ and Check the AOE:5. Works pretty well.
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For some reason i thought you were refering to the AoE 1 version which is castable earlier. Precision 10 isn't all that exciting, but with AoE 5 you'll probably hit something.
I think this speaks to a difference in research priorities. Whereas I'm rushing for legions of steel and forging better items, you're running down alteration.
Its hard to comment on how useful this is without knowing something about your pretender build. I don't know how early you have enough research for that to even be meaningful, whereas i'll have Legions of Steel at the start of turn 3.