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Old August 3rd, 2010, 09:11 AM
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Default Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !

On the last couple of posts.
Z fire agree it can be a bit to eratic up close if he cant see the target or is it. I mainly Z fire with heavy weapons MGs MTRs APCs & its reasonably acurate, squads only in rare cases burst at a tree line or hex I have recieved hidden fire from.
If I can see the hex no problem heavy weapons seem more accurate (could be me) but if you cant see the hex what do you expect.
Firing at a hex you cant see means fire traveling through a hex containing say trees buildings lots of both as its 50m so of course the fire can go anywhere its ricocheting everywhere.
Could be handled a bit better fire normally ending up in adj to first dense hex crossed but think code was adjusted to allow in first place. Does the job for me giving the right feel, heavy stuff seems more effective as less prone to richochet & deters mass Z fire at targets out of LOS while still making mass Z firing at that tree line a worthwhile proposition just in case like WW2 USA used to do.
Keeps Z fire what it is a poor substitute for arty with the exception of MGs & GLs which are very good at keeping heads down.

In combination with the previous post where you call for less suppresion effects on units in buildings that would make Z fire totaly ineffective in town. On this post about town fighting how do you suggest improving.
Hex is 50m thats normaly several buildings in a hex or you live in very big houses & 360 field of fire windows etc cannot be modelled.
Artillery has little effect unless big guns for several turns at most blinding the troops so you can sneak adjacent unless lucky. 50m is for all intents & purposes assault range now you can target that window either spraying SMG fire tossing a grenade or hitting the head & shoulder you can see.
This works well enough again giving the right feel allowing some form of tactics & all credit to the game you can tell the diffrence between diffrent troop quality.
Try 60 vs 80exp or scarry 90
High experince troops less likely to be blinded by arty (poor inexperinced guys stopped looking when the shells fell & took cover) may have more shots & more likely to recover & gain a surprise one back if one of his mates does well (I think). Seem less likely to pullback & more capable of dodging incoming fire so taking less damage & fighting longer.
Like I say try the above both ways its experince diffrence that is the worry attacking with 60 exp that arty you dropped means might have pinned yourself or if can move you are now blind & routed before even see the firer.
Close quarters fighting is deadly should be avoided at all costs & especially if your experience is more than 5 worse than his. Do the same battle in open ground where you can start engaging at range & the better exp troops will take far fewer losses.
You mention city fighting is slow WW2 & heavy weapons so do it that way, APCs are heavy weapons. Troops only no or very few vehicles now its pretty slow & painful.
Or try it vs a human & lose those APCs to RPGs unless you are very careful.
Yes there is less CC (in building) fighting than perhaps there should be but thats because the entire squad found windows to shoot out of & in game terms it makes no diffrence.
Starting the next turn with 1 unit facing 3 or 4 units adjacent to it you would be crazy to take the shot pull out if you can. Thats why units in good cover & especially fortifications like trenches tend to stay put unless reasonably damaged & someone is adjacent & about to storm there location. Fortifications also do more than adjust to hit chances I think you get a rally benefit when in them which is why they nearly always recover & I take them over if possible & set up to let me attack the next lot from.

If you can think of a better way to do this that works & gives the right feel I am all for it & agree that sometimes units bug out from an untenable position into a worse one leaving good cover & heading straight into open ground. If you have thought about where they will route to though you can have the reverse problem where the guys decide to stay put & go to their deaths.
In woods this tends to work they fall back 2 hexes & hopefully recover if thats not where your arty is falling so the defensive line shifts.
In Urban may well end up in the street unless you managed to find positions & thought about where they will head to. If you have isolated that city block with a MG down the road etc to stop reinforcing or better then they are in trouble. You can get a lot of squads just giving up & surrendering if do it right & think of this as did from there original hex.
Perhaps except so many variables it would be nice if a unit that started in a building adjacent to a street exited & crossed the street into cover more often rather than running down it. As you know they do this denying the block being isolated is important & often fairly easy pre TI by placing smoke at junctions & units covering. This is your second line giving runners a chance to get there act together the normal 2 platoons forward 1 back dependant on terrain.
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