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Old August 31st, 2020, 04:11 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: French OOB06 (v.7)

And last part.
I always liked Laffly cars. While checking vehicles in the "bible" L'Automobile sous l'uniforme 1939-1940, I've found some info on motorized units, which I'll quote for a sake of completness - maybe someone will find it useful for own mods. I can send scans of appropriate pages in need.

For game purpose, apart from adjusting vehicles' specifications, I limit suggestions to three simple things:
- extend availability of 6-men dragoon squads on Citroen-Kegresse P19 from 1930 (now 1935)
- delete 10-squad motorized infantry before 1935
- make motorized scouts available from 1935-37, with added vehicles

Motor infantry:

183 Citroen-Kegresse P19 - speed of troop carrier variant was 46 km/h (now 12), according to the book. In fact its capacity was only 7 men (now 10). Units #360-363 Chasseurs have 6-7 men, so it's OK, but units 24 Mortiers de 81 and 181 MMG Squad (2) have 8 men.

The formations of motorized infantry on P19 halftracks appear only in 7/35, but in fact they were the first French motorized units, organized from 1929 (Bataillons de Dragons Portes in some cavalry divisions). Maybe the date was mistaken with 10-men squads on wheeled vehicles.

A composition of a platoon was 7 P19: three sections with two P19 (6 men with LMG in each!) and command vehicle with 7 men. It would demand extending availability of #360-363 Chasseurs (or maybe creating earlier units with older rifles). Maybe it's worth to rename them as Dragons (they were Bataillons de Dragons Portes).

A squadron in Cavalry Division type 1932 had 32 vehicles:
- a command platoon,
- 3 fusilier platoons (above),
- 1 MG platoon
- one 60 mm mortar (apparently in one P19).

In MG platoon there were 5 P19 - four carying MG and 6 men (apparently one MG each) and one commander's with 7 men (I assume it was the same organization for squadron and battalion level, although it may be strange to assign 4 MGs for 3 platoons).

On a battalion level there was support squadron, with two MG platoons, 81 mm mortar platoon and two 25mm ATG sections (If I understand correctly, 2x2). Mortar platoon had 5 P19 - four carrying mortars and 7 men.

I'm not sure what happened to 7-men squads on P19 with an adevent of 10-men ones (I don't understand French that well), but their units may have remained until 1940, since there were dragoon P19 still in service.

From 1935 there were introduced new special six-wheeled off road troop carriers (VDP - vehicles dragons portes) to carry 10-men squads in new enlarged Regiments Dragons Portes. The first was Lorraine 28, and from 1937, Laffly 20TL:


180 Laffly S20T - precisely 20TL - it entered service only in 1937 (now 1/35). Could carry only 10 men, but it should be enough for game's formations. Speed was 65 km/h (now 18).

It has class Medium truck along with ordinary trucks, and truck-riding infantry is available from 1930. It seems, that before 1935 there were no regular motorized 10-men squads in France, riding on ordinary trucks. Maybe they could have been used ad hoc, but IMO there should be no truck infantry platoons available - if anybody wishes, he can load the infantry onto trucks.
Maybe Laffly 20TL should be reclassified to APC (wheel) to make it separate from ordinary trucks, with appropriate changes in formations.

Composition of motorized inf. platoon: 4 S20TL with 10 men (each with 2 LMGs!), including a command vehicle (with 10 men - no mention, that they had different armament)

MG platoon: 2 S20TL with 10 men and one command with 8 men (unclear number of MGs, maybe 2x2?)
Mortars 81 mm: 5 S20TL, with two sections and a command car, 7 men each (apparently 4 mortars).
There were also vehicles with 60 mm mortars (7 men).


Scouts:

437 Eclaireurs,
438 Laffly V15R
- there should be motorized scouts available earlier (now 6/40). 4x4 Laffly V15R indeed came into service in late 5/40, but only 63 were made, while at least 806 older "voiture de liaison tout terrain" (VLTT, reconnaissance off-road car) were delivered from mid-1930s, mostly 576 six-wheel Lafly S15R from some 1/1938. And earlier - apparently even from 1930-31, there were several hundreds of VLTT P19 Kegresse half-tracks. All carried 1+5 persons.

The photo of 438 Laffly V15R is in fact S15R (V15R is image 4534). We might create the other unit. Speed 24 fits to S15R (72 km/h), speed of V15R was 79 km/h.
BTW: Romanian unit 228 S15R has speed only 15.

Citroen-Kegresse P19, in scout version P19B, used from 1931, had speed 52km/h (photos http://www.doublechevron.de/Historisches/P19_3.gif , https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...5bd41e7c20.jpg ). Or photo 15011 can be used.


As for 068 Laffly V15T (Utility vehicle), it was artillery tractor variant, produced and used from 1939. Now it's used in utility vehicles and artillery observer formations only. It might be replaced with S15R as well. Citroen might be renamed Camionette, meaning all 1-1.5t trucks, including Peugeot ones.

219 Morris 15cwt - it wasn't A/T wheel, just rear whel drive (at least in 1940-43 period - the British later had few 15cwt 4x4s).


Prime movers:

165 Citroen-K P17 - max speed was 32 km/h (now 12).

There should be added faster (45 km/h) halftrack tractor Unic P107 used from about 1937 as a new standard. There is already photo 27567. Pretty good icon is 764 - it had closed middle compartment.

That's basically all as for France.

Last edited by Pibwl; August 31st, 2020 at 04:53 PM..
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