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  #21  
Old August 29th, 2012, 06:42 PM

Redeyes Redeyes is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

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Originally Posted by John_Madlock View Post
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Originally Posted by momfreeek View Post
I figured expansion takes absolute priority over early research. With bigger boundaries and more castles you can overtake early researchers before spells matter.
I believe it is true. In the first and only castle recruiting researchers is a waste of commander recruitment slot. I believe recruiting a site searcher or even spy, commander with special skills, prophet chassis or something like that is better option. In the beginning of the game you don't have many gems for forging or summons and if you put all your mages to research you don't have battle mages, so you don't need research.
This is great advice (if you want to hamstring the performance of the players you're advising.)

Last edited by Redeyes; August 29th, 2012 at 06:48 PM.. Reason: You get a thanks for making me snicker.
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  #22  
Old August 29th, 2012, 06:49 PM

rdonj rdonj is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

krpeters - No. Here's pretty much the best case scenario for a turn three fort... MA vanheim. They have access to the keeper of bridges pretender, who has a 100 patrol bonus in CBM. I can take him awake, o3/c1/g3/m1, a little extra magic and 6 dom. First turn, set taxes to 200 in the capital and patrol with him and the starting army, while creating a vanherse and 9 skinshifters. Next turn, send out the main army with the reinforcements and the vanherse, while buying a dwarven smith as you continue to overtax at 200. Turn 3, order the vanherse to build a fort. Approximately 640 gold left over to purchase mages and additional troops. So it does slow down the speed of the expansion, but it isn't nearly as crippling as you implied, if you've got a plan to make it work. Of course ma vanheim isn't going to benefit as much from an early castle as others given that their expansion is mostly gold-driven, and p3 would enhance it better than g3 here, but I just wanted to show how it was possible without sacrificing too much, and I think I've done that.

Recruiting mages in your fortress slots is NEVER a waste, it's honestly a waste to recruit other things in your cap fort because of the need to build a stable of your best (usually cap only) mages. However, you usually can't afford your best mages in the first few turns anyway, and it can be worth it sometimes to recruit non-mages to help fuel your expansion. But it's not ideal, and if you're caught with insufficient levels of research by a rush that's the best way to lose a game.
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  #23  
Old August 29th, 2012, 09:47 PM

krpeters krpeters is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

This is why I asked earlier if taxing cap at 200% was normal. I have never tried this because I've been too afraid to kill pop in my capital (patrollers kill rebels) leading to a long term deficit. But if the short term gain is worth it, maybe I should try it.

So I guess I'll ask again -- how common is the 200% tax strategy? How long can I do it without crippling my capital?
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  #24  
Old August 29th, 2012, 09:59 PM

BlanketThief BlanketThief is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

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Originally Posted by krpeters View Post
This is why I asked earlier if taxing cap at 200% was normal. I have never tried this because I've been too afraid to kill pop in my capital (patrollers kill rebels) leading to a long term deficit. But if the short term gain is worth it, maybe I should try it.

So I guess I'll ask again -- how common is the 200% tax strategy? How long can I do it without crippling my capital?
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...?showtopic=397
Patrolling kills minimal population (We're talking 10-30 pop) it's the overtax that gets you; Taxing at 200% is very common early on however.
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  #25  
Old August 29th, 2012, 10:33 PM

krpeters krpeters is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

Yeah, I just did some experimentation. 0.3% population per overtax level, so that's 3% per turn at 200%, ouch!
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  #26  
Old August 29th, 2012, 10:51 PM

rdonj rdonj is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

It's very common to overtax the capital on turn one. After that, no, it's not exactly very "common". But it all depends on a bunch of different factors that are different for each nation. Basically, sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. But in general gold early is more valuable than gold later on is. Because it boosts you to a stronger economy faster. Usually when someone is using a heavy overtax strategy they overtax at a lower level... say 130%, in provinces with a higher income and pop and you don't really lose population from it.
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  #27  
Old August 30th, 2012, 12:24 AM

Redeyes Redeyes is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

Not entirely well-known knowledge: Growth 3 makes 120 - 130 % overtaxation + patrolling population loss negligible. That's more than even full order adds! (Exact number depending on mod's effect on growth scale. 130% with CBM.)
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  #28  
Old August 30th, 2012, 08:25 AM

Admiral_Aorta Admiral_Aorta is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

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Originally Posted by John_Madlock View Post
I believe it is true. In the first and only castle recruiting researchers is a waste of commander recruitment slot. I believe recruiting a site searcher or even spy, commander with special skills, prophet chassis or something like that is better option. In the beginning of the game you don't have many gems for forging or summons and if you put all your mages to research you don't have battle mages, so you don't need research.
others have already covered it but this is a bad post. national commanders are never worth getting, you should always get mages. spys can be useful but you should never be getting them if you can get a mage instead. Magic becomes immportant almost immediately, and if you fall behind in research you have little chance of doing well later, even if you have extra provinces because you focused on expansion over research.
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  #29  
Old August 30th, 2012, 09:36 AM

John_Madlock John_Madlock is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Aorta View Post
others have already covered it but this is a bad post. national commanders are never worth getting, you should always get mages. spys can be useful but you should never be getting them if you can get a mage instead. Magic becomes immportant almost immediately, and if you fall behind in research you have little chance of doing well later, even if you have extra provinces because you focused on expansion over research.
I agreed it's true when you have couple of castles already. But I think best for research is build these castles ASAP. This is a snowball effect - number of castles where you can buy mages - not a few additional researcher that you were buying in your capital in the first several turns. Same about magic sites, search for them ASAP.
I was talking about resercher mages, not about site finder or mages for lab building.
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  #30  
Old August 30th, 2012, 09:45 AM

momfreeek momfreeek is offline
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Default Re: Some basic notes on expansion

*snip* double post
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