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  #1  
Old August 1st, 2022, 05:32 AM

Jorma Jorma is offline
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Default Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

I gave my HQ unit an SP mortar. From that moment on, that HQ unit has only been able to fire smoke. I guess that is okay, but two other SP mortars also started to refuse to fire nothing but smoke ammo. They have explosive shells, but they refuse to use them. This problem persists from game to game, map to map, in the campaign that I play.

Another problem is less consistent. One of the artillery pieces, I think it's V1 (see the attachment), often fires at the edge of my deployment frontline regardless of the actual given coordinates. This only happens on the round zero. This has led to horrendous friendly fire incidents. This event is sort of random, I think.

The attached saved game files demonstrate the problem. The problem #1 is clear and can be seen right away, but the friendly fire issue can be a bit more difficult to spot.
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File Type: zip Saved Games.zip (775.3 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by Jorma; August 1st, 2022 at 07:57 AM..
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  #2  
Old August 1st, 2022, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

You need to be more clear what each of the two saved games demonstrates. The only "V1" is not an SP Mortar and exactly what do you mean by "I gave my HQ unit an SP mortar." ??............ and exactly which unit only fires smoke?

I let save one play out and no smoke was fired by the Keshet 120 which is the only SP mortar in that save
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Old August 1st, 2022, 08:00 AM

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Default Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

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You need to be more clear what each of the two saved games demonstrates. The only "V1" is not an SP Mortar and exactly what do you mean by "I gave my HQ unit an SP mortar." ??............ and exactly which unit only fires smoke?

I let save one play out and no smoke was fired by the Keshet 120 which is the only SP mortar in that save
I have reuploaded the file. Now it is clearer which one I meant.

Please understand that these two issues are completely separate issues. V1 is a 155 mm artillery piece. Whether it is an SP mortar or not is irrelevant.

"I gave my HQ unit an SP mortar" means that my HQ is now an SP mortar.

The two non-firing mortars are U0 and U1.
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Old August 1st, 2022, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

1) Making your HQ an artillery piece is not a good idea. In subsequent turns from turn 0, it wont be able to plot artillery, since artillery pieces cannot self-plot and so you have lost the ability of A0 to act as an observer.

2) None of the M106 units show HE on the arty plot, whether in the pre-game bombardment or a subsequent turn, which is distinctly odd and may be a bug in the code with that unit class. It will need investigating.

Edit - changing the sabot (min) range to 3 for that weapon solved the problem. But buying the 160mm SP mortar (same unit class) in 73, it showed HE just fine despite having a long min range as well.. Will need investigating further as to why. In the meantime, edit the sabot range to 3 in your Israel OOB and it will allow HE plotting.

3) The odd behaviour of the bomlet arty plotted for V1 is odd. If you cancel the fires and replot then it works perfectly fine though. So what exactly do you do with it that is different?. Did you plot it and then move the piece, or did you buy some units after plotting it or what?. It will be something you did like that, since cancelling its program and reploting clears the error.

Last edited by Mobhack; August 1st, 2022 at 10:29 AM..
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Old August 1st, 2022, 11:39 AM

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Default Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

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Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post
1) Making your HQ an artillery piece is not a good idea. In subsequent turns from turn 0, it wont be able to plot artillery, since artillery pieces cannot self-plot and so you have lost the ability of A0 to act as an observer.

2) None of the M106 units show HE on the arty plot, whether in the pre-game bombardment or a subsequent turn, which is distinctly odd and may be a bug in the code with that unit class. It will need investigating.

Edit - changing the sabot (min) range to 3 for that weapon solved the problem. But buying the 160mm SP mortar (same unit class) in 73, it showed HE just fine despite having a long min range as well.. Will need investigating further as to why. In the meantime, edit the sabot range to 3 in your Israel OOB and it will allow HE plotting.

3) The odd behaviour of the bomlet arty plotted for V1 is odd. If you cancel the fires and replot then it works perfectly fine though. So what exactly do you do with it that is different?. Did you plot it and then move the piece, or did you buy some units after plotting it or what?. It will be something you did like that, since cancelling its program and reploting clears the error.
Thank you, Mobhack. I decided to make the HQ into a non-observer unit, because I almost never use it as an FO, so I felt that firing 107mm shells would be the best choice.

I have done the edits as you have suggested, but I do not see any changes in the game. In other words, the problem persists. Maybe I will have to finish the current battle and start a new one, right?

Please see the pictures:
https://ibb.co/QctwrBR
https://ibb.co/Gs42Ld3
https://ibb.co/zNC5gpT
https://ibb.co/4KmHP18

First, I went to mobhack. I loaded the default oobs. I changed the sabot range for 107 mm M30 mrtr to 3. I applied the changes and saved. I exited and went back to see if the range was still 3. It was. I went back to the game. I still cannot assign the plot the three SP mortars.
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Old August 1st, 2022, 11:41 AM

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Default Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

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Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post

3) The odd behaviour of the bomlet arty plotted for V1 is odd. If you cancel the fires and replot then it works perfectly fine though. So what exactly do you do with it that is different?. Did you plot it and then move the piece, or did you buy some units after plotting it or what?. It will be something you did like that, since cancelling its program and reploting clears the error.
This problem started immediately after I had made the HQ to an artillery piece.
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Old August 1st, 2022, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

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3) The odd behaviour of the bomlet arty plotted for V1 is odd. If you cancel the fires and replot then it works perfectly fine though. So what exactly do you do with it that is different?. Did you plot it and then move the piece, or did you buy some units after plotting it or what?. It will be something you did like that, since cancelling its program and reploting clears the error.
This problem started immediately after I had made the HQ to an artillery piece.
Just dont make A0 an artillery piece.

If he is an artillery piece he advertises his location to the enemy who may counter battery him (or planes will target it) and kill him, and when he dies your campaign ends since you are now dead...

making the A0 an ary piece is something I've never ever done, even back in the days of SP1 when you were limited to the 24 or so units you bought as your first core, since SP1 didnt allow expanding the core. So in SP1 (and 2?) one often bought cheap placeholder units (like trucks) in the initial buy.

Making A0 something "fighty" was therefore a regular thing in early SP version campaigns since tyhere were so few toys in the first place.

One of the worst things to do was to make A0 a SPAAA unit since the enemy air loves to kill AAA units, of course!

And the results you got from making him an arty unit also adds to the "dont do that!" reasons as well. The commander is not meant to be used that way in SP.

Last edited by Mobhack; August 1st, 2022 at 12:15 PM..
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Old August 1st, 2022, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

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Originally Posted by Jorma View Post

Thank you, Mobhack. I decided to make the HQ into a non-observer unit, because I almost never use it as an FO, so I felt that firing 107mm shells would be the best choice.

I have done the edits as you have suggested, but I do not see any changes in the game. In other words, the problem persists. Maybe I will have to finish the current battle and start a new one, right?

Please see the pictures:
https://ibb.co/QctwrBR
https://ibb.co/Gs42Ld3
https://ibb.co/zNC5gpT
https://ibb.co/4KmHP18

First, I went to mobhack. I loaded the default oobs. I changed the sabot range for 107 mm M30 mrtr to 3. I applied the changes and saved. I exited and went back to see if the range was still 3. It was. I went back to the game. I still cannot assign the plot the three SP mortars.
I simply made the changes in mobhack, then loaded the sample turn 0 game you sent and all was well.

If you are trying to make the changes to a "running" game beyond the turn 0 save you sent, then of course you wont see any result since the initial unit data has been loaded into the units at turn 0 initialisation. So you would have to complete the game and go through the forthcoming purchase screens for the next game in series before seeing any effect.

So - go back to the turn 0 save you sent, and then the changes will "take". Also remember to unplot that piece that was firing cluster and replot it.
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  #9  
Old August 1st, 2022, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

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Originally Posted by Jorma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post

3) The odd behaviour of the bomlet arty plotted for V1 is odd. If you cancel the fires and replot then it works perfectly fine though. So what exactly do you do with it that is different?. Did you plot it and then move the piece, or did you buy some units after plotting it or what?. It will be something you did like that, since cancelling its program and reploting clears the error.
This problem started immediately after I had made the HQ to an artillery piece.
And funnily enough - it was further units of the exact same unit class and exact subtype of that unit class as you had changed the HQ unit to that became borked as well....

(Basically - dont ever make A0 an indirect arty unit of any type since it seems to have unlocked some sort of code weirdness that likely has existed since SP1 days.) ( DRG Edit )

Last edited by DRG; August 1st, 2022 at 01:14 PM..
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  #10  
Old August 1st, 2022, 12:14 PM

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Default Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post

3) The odd behaviour of the bomlet arty plotted for V1 is odd. If you cancel the fires and replot then it works perfectly fine though. So what exactly do you do with it that is different?. Did you plot it and then move the piece, or did you buy some units after plotting it or what?. It will be something you did like that, since cancelling its program and reploting clears the error.
This problem started immediately after I had made the HQ to an artillery piece.
Just dont make A) an artillery piece.

If he is an artillery piece he advertises his location to the enemy who may counter battery him (or planes will target it) and kill him, and when he dies your campaign ends since you are now dead...

making the A0 an ary piece is something I've never ever done, even back in the days of SP1 when you were limited to the 24 or so units you bought as your first core, since SP1 didnt allow expanding the core. So in SP1 (and 2?) one often bought cheap placeholder units (like trucks) in the initial buy.

Making A0 something "fighty" was therefore a regular thing in early SP version campaigns since tyhere were so few toys in the first place.

One of the worst things to do was to make A0 a SPAAA unit since the enemy air loves to kill AAA units, of course!

And the results you got from making him an arty unit also adds to the "dont do that!" reasons as well. The commander is not meant to be used that way in SP.
I see and I understand your points, but the HQ only has a good artillery stat, so that is why I wanted it to be an artillery unit. Now it is mobile and pretty fast, and I move it around a lot. I find difficult to believe that the AI wants SP mortars dead. Before being an SP mortar, the HQ was the standard vanilla infantry HQ and the AI frequently tried to kill it with mortar fire but never with anything heavy caliber. Giving it light armor and good mobility was a natural reaction.

If you were me, what would you do with the HQ next time that I refit my core army? That means after this battle, of course.
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