Question before buying!

[JonBrave]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

That doesnt just apply to MP play. It also applies to Solo play and to upgrading the AI. There are settings, maps, mods, modded nations, and 3rd party programs which take the AI far beyond what you might have played when you were going thru the demo or tutorial.

For SP, is there a particualr link/thread to guide to these? For example, I think I read the Balance Mod is not best for AI, where should I start looking? Thanks.

[DeadlyShoe]

CBM works fine for the AI, it's just not targeted at it. It tends to create a more balanced SP experience because of better general balance, and also eliminates some strategies which the AI cannot effectively counter.

[Stavis_L]

Originally Posted by JonBrave

For SP, is there a particualr link/thread to guide to these? For example, I think I read the Balance Mod is not best for AI, where should I start looking? Thanks.

Some of the more popular ways to improve the SP experience are:

• Edi's Better Independents mod (sets recruit costs for indeps sky high so the AI doesn't create hordes of generic units.)
• Using a no-indep-recruitables (NI) map; Sombre created a few in this thread, and there are more if you dig around. (Uses map editing to remove generic units as poptype recruitables.)
• Ballbarian's SemiRandom program (creates maps from template files that have custom designed provinces/pretenders, so you don't get self-crippling AI opponents as much, and the province defenders are more likely to make sense for the province in question.)
• Specific scenario maps, like Edi's Faerun map (a map with custom designed provinces). There are other scenario maps out there, although not as many as one would like...
• Using "overpowered" mods as AI opponenents; some people put some of Amos' mods in that category, although I haven't tried them personally.

[Gandalf Parker]

This thread started out as "House Rules Against AI" but it turned into a general thread on improving the AI.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44783
Unfortunately there isnt a sticky on the subject of Solo games.

[JonBrave]

Thank you, guys above, these are all excellent answers!

[theenemy]

Originally Posted by thejeff

That is not true. (I suppose, depending on what you mean by "gameplay value" it could be...)

Plenty of people, including me, play SP and enjoy it.
Impossible AIs, especially with the BetterIndependents mod, can be quite challenging through midgame, if you aren't abusing the AI flaws or playing an early game optimized strategy (awake SC pretender, strong double bless nation, strong recruitable thug/SCs)

It's not as challenging as MP can be, especially as the game goes on and you get more options, which the AI doesn't even try to counter. OTOH, some strategies actually work better in MP than against the AI.

Yeah, you and a handful of people enjoy Dom3 SP, good for you. It's not my thing however. If you need to play a game a certain way to get enjoyment out of it then it's a bad game I reckon.
All I can say is that if Dom3 was a strictly SP game,I would never pay 50 bucks for it. Maybe 5/6 dollars at most.
Just my opinion.

[Gandalf Parker]

Nothing wrong with an opinion like that. I dont think I will ever buy a game that is MP only so Id say it can probably go both ways. And Ive been equally unsatisfied with purchased games where the AI barely covered the tutorial.

The comment about "If you need to play a game a certain way to get enjoyment out of it then it's a bad game I reckon." can also go both ways.

Not sure about things like "a handful". Dom3 has sold far more copies than are present in the MP games I know of. And the forum gets far more visitors than are logged in (Ive often been told that one of the few reasons for making a login is to join mp games or ask some question that has never been asked). Ive rarely heard of anyone who bought it and deleted it without feeling they got their money worth (though I always recommend trying the demo just to be sure in case anyone is lurking this). And the variant games on my server that allow single-player to try out versions of Dom3 thry might not easily have access to otherwise do get a fair bit of 1-player plays vs multiplayer. So most of the activity might seem to be about mp but I dont really go for the "handful" thing as straight numbers.

Its pretty cool that a game is able to support multiple versions of play.

[theenemy]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Nothing wrong with an opinion like that. I dont think I will ever buy a game that is MP only so Id say it can probably go both ways.

I didn't mean that Dom3 should be MP only. No need to pick on details. I am an SP guy myself, I just find Dom3s SP very hollow and boring.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

The comment about "If you need to play a game a certain way to get enjoyment out of it then it's a bad game I reckon." can also go both ways.

For me this comment can only go in one way, but enlighten me on how this can be a positive thing?
I believe that making game mechanics enjoyable is the job of the devs. and not the gamers.(yea yea dom3 is an indie game made by two guys yadda yadda... but still)

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Its pretty cool that a game is able to support multiple versions of play.

And I thank Illwinter for that

PS: Just out of curiosity Gandalf; would you pay 50 bucks for Dom3 if it was an SP-game only and there was NO way to play it in MP?

[archaeolept]

Gandalf doesn't really play MP, so it is clear that his answer will be in the affirmative.

SP varies greatly by person and personality. I think domIII has pretty good SP potential for a lot of people, due to its huge amount of content, but not for others, due to the game mechanics being too complex to have an adequate AI. I enjoy SP when i'm looking for strategies for a nation, but as soon as I start an MP game i just stop playing any SP...

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by theenemy

For me this comment can only go in one way, but enlighten me on how this can be a positive thing?

I took it to be that you were saying if it can only be played solo then its a bad game. By "both ways" I meant that a game which can only be played mp might also be considered by some to be a bad game.

I believe that making game mechanics enjoyable is the job of the devs. and not the gamers.(yea yea dom3 is an indie game made by two guys yadda yadda... but still)

I might have said mission, not job. And it can be the mission of the player community as well as it can be the mission of the devs. To say its the "job" of the devs is rather defeating and dead end in this case.

PS: Just out of curiosity Gandalf; would you pay 50 bucks for Dom3 if it was an SP-game only and there was NO way to play it in MP?

I have in the past for similar. For that matter, it might as well be said that I did for Dom3. I was already tired of it in multiplay before it was released yet I did pay for a couple of copies.

But if it had been developed for solo play only, then even more so. If the game had been developed with only one or the other in mind then I suspect it would have done a better job of it.