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  #281  
Old September 8th, 2010, 01:13 PM
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Default Re: what about the future?

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Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annette View Post
Not really a "community", I guess, but there is an active game matching service at http://dom3.matryx.org.uk/ Anyone without a valid key need not bother, though. The administrators will verify your purchase with us.
Actually there is a forum, and a channel. But the forum costs money to join.
And the maytrix site requires that I believe.

But it is a wonderful server. I think we could really use one of our own like that
Yes, being a Goon is mandatory to use Matryx' service, you can see that as soon as you try to register on there. Well, there are exceptions to that rule, but it has been designed to be for games originating from the SA forums. That's why it isn't on the list of the Dom3 game servers.

Matryx might share some codebits about his server setup there, but he is using an internal framework from his job which prohibits him from sharing it with others. So don't expect that there is going to be a non-SA branch of the service unless Matryx himself decides to host it.

MoseHansen shares his Perl scripts from his automated Dom2 game server, if you're interested in that. I did plan to develop a fully customizable web frontend for Dom3 game servers in PHP using some other frontend before Matryx showed me his site, but I dropped that project when it became apparent that the Llamaserver became the de-facto standard for playing Dom3 games and people have no issues about PBEM turns, I then put the time into the Dom3Wiki instead. It seemed there was no need for a network equivalent, and what actually killed it for me was the whole user management stuff that one has to model and implement.

It's possible to verify purchased copies with the publisher? That's very interesting, I think server admins would like to have this option. Are llamabeast's and Gandalf's servers doing this already, too?

P.S.: I didn't really read much of the rest of this thread, or the other threads. Looks like the emotional tampon levels of the forums are quite high again.
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  #282  
Old September 8th, 2010, 01:22 PM

Zeldor Zeldor is offline
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Default Re: what about the future?

Lch:

Afaik pirated version works up to 3.10 or smth anyway. So I see no reason to verify anything more, unless someone wants to play vanilla unpatched... I don't think we have any real piracy issue here.
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  #283  
Old September 8th, 2010, 01:50 PM
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Gandalf Parker Gandalf Parker is offline
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Default Re: what about the future?

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Originally Posted by lch View Post
MoseHansen shares his Perl scripts from his automated Dom2 game server, if you're interested in that. I did plan to develop a fully customizable web frontend for Dom3 game servers in PHP using some other frontend before Matryx showed me his site, but I dropped that project when it became apparent that the Llamaserver became the de-facto standard for playing Dom3 games and people have no issues about PBEM turns, I then put the time into the Dom3Wiki instead. It seemed there was no need for a network equivalent, and what actually killed it for me was the whole user management stuff that one has to model and implement.
A front end something like this?
http://www.dom3minions.com/lab/MakeGame.htm
Actually most of the pieces for such a server have been ironed out if someone wanted to do it.

I didnt really want to with Dom3Minons. Like most things of mine it was meant more as a proof-of-concept for others to build on and improve. Which has happened to some extent. What I had originally wanted was for Dom3Minions to be a community asset as a shell account server but very few took me up on it and Im losing the ability to keep up with even that little an offering. I never did plan to go to a full hosting service.

As far as the need, de-facto, and no problems with pbem I would disagree. It is very common on this forum to put larger games on LLama's server (and I greatly appreciate it for that) but its not "the de-facto standard for playing Dom3 games". Possibly it is on Sombre's. On the other forums very little is pbem, nor does there seem much interest in it altho I make sure they all know that LLama's is available.

But if someone wanted to create a server like Matryx's (they would have to do it from scratch I guess) then it might spread things out abit. That server arrangment is entirely setup for hosted direct-connect games. It facilitates their different forum style because it serves some of the purpose that separate game threads do on this forum. It displays games that want players, allows them to find out the settings, join if they wish reserving the nation they want, download the mods and maps for it, and once the game starts it allows checking to see who has done their turns. And it gives a one-stop location for checking the status of the games you are in. But unlike servers like LLama's or Dom3Minions it doesnt host any. The games are all being played on other systems. In fact, a number of the games are being hosted on Dom3Minions.

Of the 3 types of servers, I have put that one forth as the best concept for any possible future official server IMHO.

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Last edited by Gandalf Parker; September 8th, 2010 at 01:58 PM..
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  #284  
Old September 8th, 2010, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: what about the future?

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As a relative newcomer, I really have to say that I find the attitudes on the forums pretty similar. The only real difference I see is that there seems to be a fairly low tolerance for deliberate misinformation and malicious trolling on dom3mods. This isn't enforced by mods, rather it seems the community of experienced players there feel free to post decisively to deal with such episodes. Having been a moderator on a different forum, I really don't understand how a community like this can function when the only times I see moderators is on the buglist or when somebody gets reported. On the forum I moderated for, moderators were expected to be active, contributing members of the community whom people could respect. From my own searching and lurking, this does not seem to be so much the case here. However, I see no reason to not enjoy whatever fruits both forums may offer.
Good post.

This community has functioned pretty well with various levels of moderator posting activity for years. I'm around and I read the forums even if I don't post a whole lot.

I have a posting philosophy of not posting if somebody else already covered what I would have said, since it would not add anything new to the discussion. There was a time when you could hardly find a thread where I wasn't posting when somebody asked a question, but you'd have to dig a while to get there. The same is true of the other mods, all of them have been very active some time in the past, even if that may be in the very distant past since they were already mods back in the day of Dominions 2.

The various moderators also have jobs, families and other interests, which often cuts down on their available posting time, even if they keep an eye on the forum. Keeping an eye on a forum requires far less time than actively posting on said forum.

The community here does a fairly good job of keeping things in hand by itself, it doesn't need a whole lot of moderator action as such. When certain sorts of things do crop up, then we may need to intervene, but I like not needing to intervene. Most of the other mods also prefer that state of things.

Sometimes though there are clashes of strong personalities that don't smooth out on their own, which is usually when the report button gets used and then moderators have to step in.

With regard to moderator activity on the bug reports, that's my primary job description here. It was the reason I was made a moderator in the first place, so I need to pay especially close attention to it.

Hopefully this answers some of your concerns and questions about how this place works.
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  #285  
Old September 9th, 2010, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
A front end something like this?
http://www.dom3minions.com/lab/MakeGame.htm
Actually most of the pieces for such a server have been ironed out if someone wanted to do it.
No, as far as I'm aware that's an interface to create and start a new game, but nothing after that. I had something in mind which smoothes the whole process that currently has to be handled manually by game admins in regards to organizing and administrating a game. Something where game admins can create/register a game, invite other people by formmail and use possibly some kind of token to the game or have it displayed on a overview page and leave the slots open for (registered) users to fill them. Verification of email addresses so people receive email notification on hosting for the games they're in, which they could optionally turn off, too. Then an option to boot people from said slots, handle players who work as substitutes, reset/change the clock for the game, and so on. All the little manual things. For games hosted on the server itself, access to the game backups, ability to revert to turn no. X, optionally extensive graphs for the game and a map of who owns which provinces currently. Blahblahblah, as I said, implementing the user management and web interface to handle all this would take quite some time and while something like that would certainly be "nice to have" and I even had some of the technical stuff implemented, I thought that it wouldn't be worth the effort. Especially not in the long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
As far as the need, de-facto, and no problems with pbem I would disagree. It is very common on this forum to put larger games on LLama's server (and I greatly appreciate it for that) but its not "the de-facto standard for playing Dom3 games". Possibly it is on Sombre's. On the other forums very little is pbem, nor does there seem much interest in it altho I make sure they all know that LLama's is available.
I've considered PBEM to be quite cumbersome, myself, but after the Llamaserver was fully operational people have voiced more than once that they prefer it to networked games. One of their points was that you have less issues with firewalls, the other that they automatically have access to their previous turns in their mailbox, which for networked games would require them to take care of backups themselves. I'd say that's about as much work as saving and getting the turn files from your mailbox every turn to play PBEM, but I can accept the points they make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
But if someone wanted to create a server like Matryx's (they would have to do it from scratch I guess) then it might spread things out abit. That server arrangment is entirely setup for hosted direct-connect games.
As you said yourself, it isn't really a server (as in, something that hosts games), but a service which tracks games on other servers. A web interface or web version to the game monitor tools that have become available here from multiple people, too. I don't know if you noticed that I had something like that when I've had my stuff hosted by you, too, I've even shared/compared code with Matryx. The problem is that the socket support in PHP4/5 is abysmal and you can't be fully sure that you receive something back when you make a request to a remote game server, it could just hang for an indefinite time. AFAIK what Matryx does to overcome this is to poll every server in set intervals, every couple of minutes or so, instead of when a request is made.

Last edited by lch; September 9th, 2010 at 05:32 AM.. Reason: info
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  #286  
Old September 9th, 2010, 06:28 AM
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Default Re: what about the future?

I think the genius of the llamaserver in in the accessibility rather than any differences between PBEM and direct connect.

The three key features IMO is:

1) That you can do everything from game settings and uploading you own mods to admining etc. entirely by yourself.
2) That doing this is so easy and obvious that anyone can do it almost regardless of computer skills.
3) That it is completely open to use instantly by everyone.

A comparable service fulfilling these three conditions for networked games would be absolutely wonderful, and I hope some day it happens.
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  #287  
Old September 9th, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Gandalf Parker Gandalf Parker is offline
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Default Re: what about the future?

I agree such a system would be great. If anyone wanted to do one I would gladly pitch in. Most of the needed functions have been played with and fairly ironed out that can make it happen.

Actually, my system was supposed to be a "do it all yourself" system, but in the mode of logging in and running your own games on my server. That level of DIY didnt seem to take off. Not enough linux lovers (or DOS retirees) I guess. Some did. DrP, lch, targa, zen, torvak, nagot, alneyan, pvk, psitticine, nerfix, ballbarian, arralen, xietor, wraithlord, horstjens, coobe, jarkko all had logins on the server and some had admin (root) privileges. I was kindof hoping one might start play with the idea of such a system as you describe. I think lch was the only one to take a stab at it.

I dont think I will be adding new logins anymore. But my system will stay up as long as I can to host games in hacker mode. With no menu of choices. Get creative, anything you can come up with I can host. Dom3Minions can do everything. It just doesnt menu it.

But I agree. A Llamabeast version for tcpip (direct connect) games would be great if someone wants to do one. Pretty much anyone can do it, and quite possibly do it better. Especially lately. If you have upgraded your computer and have the old one sitting around, consider it. Here is some info on mine..
http://www.dom3minions.com/ServerInfo.htm

Last edited by Gandalf Parker; September 9th, 2010 at 10:39 AM..
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  #288  
Old September 9th, 2010, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: what about the future?

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Originally Posted by Soyweiser View Post
On the topic of the future of dominions, and the future of Illwinter.
Well, here's what part of Illwinter has done recently. Unfortunately not much of a strategy game.
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  #289  
Old September 9th, 2010, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: what about the future?

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Originally Posted by S.R. Krol View Post
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Originally Posted by Soyweiser View Post
On the topic of the future of dominions, and the future of Illwinter.
Well, here's what part of Illwinter has done recently. Unfortunately not much of a strategy game.
He is quite proud of it.
I thought this was a signature note...
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  #290  
Old September 10th, 2010, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: what about the future?

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Originally Posted by S.R. Krol View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser View Post
On the topic of the future of dominions, and the future of Illwinter.
Well, here's what part of Illwinter has done recently. Unfortunately not much of a strategy game.
Obviously the "Omnibat" is a bat-winged pretender deity in the new pantheon.

* Sacred troops will have darkvision (echolocation) and sonic ranged weapons.
* "Vampire Bat" - blood/death mages
* "Little Brown Bat" - spy
* "Fruit Bat" - seducers
* Infantry wield bats (clubs)

Of course, all the Bat-Sh** causes insanity in dominion.
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