What happens in 2025?

[Karagin]

Guys they, the DOD and the MIC, have been saying since the late 90s we will have DEW or Laser on AFVs. Yet nothing has happened. In 2008 we were told hey we MIGHT get one for use on the Bradleys to counter IEDs, never happened.

Then while in Korea in 2016, we heard Oh hey, there is talk about a laser weapon being put on the Strykers, and nothing came of that. Every decade since the 80s, the MIC talks, shows off a cool demo system, the DOD throws them money, and nothing ever makes it down to the rank and file to us, so what is going to change this time?

Also, adding a separate APU to an AFV means one more thing that can break down, one more thing that needs to be taken care of. That equals more downtime overall for the AFV. All of that has to be factored into the command and control planning. Important for real life, but maybe not for a war game depending on scale and scope.

[Dion]

Lasers might be twice as powerful as people think because they can start fires. I don't think there's one single animal on earth that will not retreat from fire. I imagine they will breakdown easy, just from everyday wear and tear from simple vibrations that its vehicle its mounted too has to endure each day. Probably would require extra maintenance and re-calibrations daily as well. As far as how decisive they will be on the battlefield, only time will tell.

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by Karagin

Every decade since the 80s, the MIC talks, shows off a cool demo system, the DOD throws them money, and nothing ever makes it down to the rank and file to us, so what is going to change this time?

1. )Big Army is now behind it with the system designated Directed Energy Maneuver-SHORAD [DE M-SHORAD].

https://www.defensenews.com/land/202...rones-at-yuma/

2.) The Ukrainian war has pushed anti-drone capabilities to the forefront. The cheapest possible weapon now -- IRON DOME style -- costs about $30,000 per interceptor. This just too much when dealing with the DJI MAVIC drone threat of $2 to $3K per drone just flying around with a camera and dropping grenades on you.

3.) Lasers are the solution to a lot of problems. While you can use a radar intended for an active protection system to track drones and probably zap them with microwaves; that's a very limited capability -- it only works on targets that need electronics continuously running to stay in the air -- lasers let you counter artillery shells, mortars and drones with a very low marginal per shot cost. You can also use the laser against ground targets -- i.e. zapping IEDs or suspected IEDs, clearing land mines, destroying UXO, etc.

Also, adding a separate APU to an AFV means one more thing that can break down, one more thing that needs to be taken care of.

The M1A2 SEPv3 Abrams upgrade has a 10 kW APU.

The M2A4 Bradley has an APU.

Big Army saw the light on APUs after thousands of hours were waste in Iraq using Abrams and other AFVs as road sentries, running their engines for hours on end to power the on board sensors needed for the sentry mission.

[Mustang]

If youre going to assume directed energy weapons start fires, the entire map will become flame hexes fast.

As they said in the old NATO boardgame, to simulate the effects of strategic nuclear war, douse the map in gasoline and get a lighter.

[Karagin]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

1. )Big Army is now behind it with the system designated Directed Energy Maneuver-SHORAD [DE M-SHORAD].

https://www.defensenews.com/land/202...rones-at-yuma/

2.) The Ukrainian war has pushed anti-drone capabilities to the forefront. The cheapest possible weapon now -- IRON DOME style -- costs about $30,000 per interceptor. This just too much when dealing with the DJI MAVIC drone threat of $2 to $3K per drone just flying around with a camera and dropping grenades on you.

3.) Lasers are the solution to a lot of problems. While you can use a radar intended for an active protection system to track drones and probably zap them with microwaves; that's a very limited capability -- it only works on targets that need electronics continuously running to stay in the air -- lasers let you counter artillery shells, mortars and drones with a very low marginal per shot cost. You can also use the laser against ground targets -- i.e. zapping IEDs or suspected IEDs, clearing land mines, destroying UXO, etc.

The M1A2 SEPv3 Abrams upgrade has a 10 kW APU.

The M2A4 Bradley has an APU.

Big Army saw the light on APUs after thousands of hours were waste in Iraq using Abrams and other AFVs as road sentries, running their engines for hours on end to power the on board sensors needed for the sentry mission.

APUs are one more thing to go wrong. I have seen firsthand how badly PMCS is done on stuff, seen how well it is done when it's done right. Worlds apart. Also, the DOD is being told to go all-electric by 3030/35, so what good will an APU do them when the damn batteries weigh more than the overall vehicle can carry?

Same for the laser/DEW system, the power source is still the size of a car to give it any chance to do the damage-to-kill ratio it needs to be effective. Shooting down missiles or artillery is great, but to have them on AFVs and be effective against other AFVs on the same level as chemical projectile guns, you will need a lot of power.

Big Army didn't see ****, contractors saw something and sold them something. We the soldiers pointed out issues to them all the time, sent in tons of reports and it got nothing changed. What we got told was to shut the F-UP and worry about our lanes.

Big Army has been dazzled by the MIC since the 60s with their promises of everything from caseless ammo for small arms, which we still haven't gotten, to laser rifles for the infantry. Every other year you see one or more of the contractors pushing their stuff and nothing comes of it other than a lot of money thrown at a project and little return.

Yes, the Army wants the DEW and they want rail guns and they want power armor suits and they better tanks and they want and want...but they don't get everything. And a lot of their pipedream wants are just that pipedreams from the MIC.

I have a nice collection of old COMBAT ARMS magazines with all the promised stuff the MIC was telling the DOD they would give by this point in time and that was back in the 1980s and here we are still not even seeing less than a quarter of that stuff since most of it was lies.