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  #1  
Old May 10th, 2020, 08:56 PM

Karagin Karagin is offline
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Default Weapons accuracy

A small question that is a bit long:

Weapon A has an accuracy of 30 with a range of 2000 meters. Unit X with this weapon has 80% experience, country training is on. Said unit has a clear LOS to target, is not under suppression or pinned. Moved one hex (yes, I use the hex grid) target is roughly 6 hexes away. Enemy unit is an M48 tank.

Unit X fires and hits with the first two weapons, then the third weapon fires, the bar at the top of the screen says it has a 73% chance of hitting the M48. Somehow the misses by hit one full hex over and to the left.

So what all goes into the to-hit probability equation? I just quit a battle because no matter what my side fired, regardless of moving or sitting still out of three weapons fired average for each unit, 1 might hit and then it was lucky to kill the target, computer though, damn it was like they could not miss.
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Old May 10th, 2020, 10:04 PM

retiredgysgt retiredgysgt is offline
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Default Re: Weapons accuracy

Germany VS USA in North Africa 1942 My PZ-IVH kept missing his M3 Stuarts but the M3 Stuarts kept hitting AND getting special damage over and over. Of course this was SPWW2 not SPMBT.
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Old May 11th, 2020, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: Weapons accuracy

There will always be times in any game, especially one with chance in its fundamental design, where things will go wrong for one side or well for another. That is the nature of random numbers. Sometimes you make bank from the casino - but mainly the casino gains from you.

Oddly enough, though every so often some frustrated player will pop up with something like your post, hardly ever does anyone do the opposite and say it's too easy. Though everyone will have thier tale of zipping some tank over a hill and firing off a Hail Mary shot at a ridiculous range - and connecting.

The firing routines are composed of many functions that call many subordinate functions - not a simple odds-shift table as in tabletop wargames. Nor can any details other than what is in the Mobhack help file be let out due to the NDA.

But the AI fires according to exactly the same rules as you. The only time it will gain an advantage might be in a scenario where the designer assigned a few Wittmans to oppose you. Experience is a major player in to-hit rolls and failure (or not) of the various fumbles that can happen in the code - as is suppression, and EXP helps deal with that as well.

But if truly frustrated, you could always exit and return to a previous save and try again and see if the laws of randomness were with you this time. The random number seed is not saved with each savegame.
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Old May 11th, 2020, 12:59 PM

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Default Re: Weapons accuracy

Thanks for the info Mobhack, I would not be complaining per se if for two turns no matter what I did the computer always seemed to get first shot hits or kills and I was lucky if one out four units firing hit anything.

It was annoying enough to perk my interest as to why it was happening, normally I see the opposite, where both myself and the computer are not hitting for anything till we are like three hexes away. Again thanks for trying to explain things and I will head back in and see what happens.
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Old May 12th, 2020, 12:48 AM

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Default Re: Weapons accuracy

Right. From personal experience battle results even out over time. Sometimes it seems your stationary guys can't hit anything, then one tank moves full MP, takes a single shot at 600 meters and scores a kill. Call it the uncertainty of war. Improbable things happen.

Last edited by jivemi; May 13th, 2020 at 12:35 AM..
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Old May 12th, 2020, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Weapons accuracy

If you have time ( and who doesn't ATM......) try an experiment.

Save after every turn and if you get a situation like you describe go back and restart the turn and play it out. Try that a couple of times and keep that original save then shut down the game and play that turn again.... then reboot your computer and play that turn again and I think you will see that things do not happen the same way twice.

I know it can be frustrating and at least once a year someone brings it up and it's always a variation on " the AI can hit a hummingbird but I can't hit the broad side of a barn"....... and I have been there too where it seems like the AI is superman but IT IS AS ANDY SAID........ the AI gets no to-hit bonus and it's the random number generator that has kept this game going long after games with more predictable results have faded away.
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Old May 12th, 2020, 12:53 PM
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Fallout Re: Weapons accuracy

As an only me against the AI player, it's an advantage (As Don just mentioned.) I strongly feel the AI should have.

I say this because it has it's own set of disadvantages we don't have, namely near the top of that list is resupply for starters and fully "independent thought" and all the other things (Including myself.) players have brought up over the years.

That AI advantage is a small price to pay, given all ours.

Finally yes I've "scratched my head" many times out here over that issue, but I've seen it happen in my favor as well over the years where it seems the only way a unit(s) didn't get a hit was because it was immobilized or destroyed. That happens just as rarely as well.

I still feel strongly that the AI does an excellent job as modeled currently with some enhancements that were made over the last few years especially.

The more you put limitations on yourself with the expectation (Whatever that is besides...) of winning the battle, the more challenging you'll find the AI.

Regards,
Pat
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Old May 12th, 2020, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: Weapons accuracy

Pat....... we both said there is no AI advantage and there is no AI advantage or special code only the AI uses. The "rules" built into the code apply to both human and AI equally. It gets "bad days" too just nobody complains about those much unless it's the AI pushing units one after another into a kill zone which it will do from time to time but it's a tactic that works if the human player is having a "bad day" or moving and firing or using troops with borderline experience/morale
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Old May 12th, 2020, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Weapons accuracy

As Don says the random factors are what make the game as you have to adjust your strategy to compensate for the surprises. It all evens out in the end but produces some tense moments or lucky openings.

Fortunately the game guide gives clear info on what units are capable of, the different systems (range finder etc), effects of movement, suppression etc.
Along with the likely effect the weapon will have on the target.

After a while you get a feel of what your & the enemies forces are capable of so you can predict the likely outcome of an exchange & play to your units strengths & weaknesses.
Most of the time things go pretty much as expected & its the ones that don't that make it interesting.
The game catches the fact that while you can predict the outcome there is no certainty in war.

My best moment from the last battle was an ATGM team that I thought was lost doing a full rally gaining its movement points & shots back & taking out the tank that fired at it. Next turn I was able to capitalise on this surprise outcome.
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Old May 12th, 2020, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Weapons accuracy

I've seen this as well over the years. A unit has moderate to high suppression to the point they can barley return fire and not move but they have a shot and take it and that causes enemy casualties which boosts morale and reduces suppression and they are back in the fight with their MP back........... a " heroic rally" moment.
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Last edited by DRG; May 13th, 2020 at 01:24 PM..
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