Opening Gambit

JonBrave · #1 November 22nd, 2011, 02:53 PM

For the variety of nations I have played in games (vanilla SP), I seem to start with 400 pounds and my best mage costs 400.

I tend to spend all 400 on turn #1 building the mage, then on turn #2 I prophetize him. He's ready on turn #3, and I can't afford anything else to buy on turn #1.

Is this a good/normal/poor strategy? Knowing this game, I'm sure there will be "ifs" & "buts" & "nation strategies", I'm asking "in general"

Tecnócrata · #2 November 22nd, 2011, 02:57 PM

Well, I always tend to make prophet the starting commander. Let him cast the Sermons of Courage/Smites, and save the true mages for their own magic stuff.

brxbrx · #3 November 22nd, 2011, 02:57 PM

There are nations where the best mage costs greater than four hundred gold. Also, you may want to build up your army on turn one, to get a jump on conquering provinces.
Finally the best reason to get a prophet so early on would be to spread dominion. To do so early on would mostly just be useful on small maps, as on large maps you'd have plenty of time before getting swamped by sacrifices or covert preachers.

JonBrave · #4 November 22nd, 2011, 03:30 PM

Doesn't sound like my strategy is any good at all, then!

Yes, I had been concerned that I was losing turn #1 for any army build for expansion, hence the question.

tratorix · #5 November 22nd, 2011, 03:41 PM

Generally you want as many of your expensive mages as possible in the late game, and since these 400+ mages are usually cap only you want to start recruiting them ASAP. However, early expansion should pretty much always take priority over mages. Unless you have a awake SC pretender you can lean on for expansion, your first focus should be getting a second expansion party out.

JonBrave · #6 November 22nd, 2011, 03:52 PM

So should I take my starting party out "as-is" on turn #1? Then anything I build goes to a second new army, not to bolster my starters?

See also the other new thread I've just posted, wrt whether an awake Pretender should go with the first party?

LDiCesare · #7 November 22nd, 2011, 03:59 PM

Most mages don't cost 400 gold. Prophetizing a mage looks like a very bad idea in my eyes, unless he's a thug/SC. And then probably not on first turn.
Having a wizard prophet means your prophet can't preach or fight and research at the same time, while a scout could do the preaching and leading of sacreds for 20 gold or somesuch.
In battle, your prophet will Bless, Smite, Sermon of courage or Fanaticise his troops. During this time, he's not casting the spells a wizard could cast, so it's suboptimal.
Bringing a prophet to battle in your dominion grants him more hp, mr... and since he's autoblessed, it can be a good idea to use a mage to self-buff, get the boost from dominion and autobless, and attack. But on turn 1 you can't buff yourself, so that's a waste.
Overall, I can see only one reason why one would make an expensive wizard a prophet early on: He costs no upkeep. So, you get a big upkeep break, but you either lose a prophet or a mage in doing so. So, I'm not sure it's worth trying.

What's the reason why you'd prophetize an expensive mage instead of a scout or commander? H3 priests come to mind, but getting to H4 is not that useful early on.

tratorix · #8 November 22nd, 2011, 04:04 PM

No, generally you're going to want to wait for scouting reports turn one, so you have some idea of the resistance you will face. Hiring troops to bolster your starting army turn one is a good idea though. Some people also up the taxes on their capital turn one and patrol with they're starting army, which gives a nice income boost. Just don't forget to reset taxes the next turn.

Corinthian · #9 November 22nd, 2011, 04:30 PM

You have to get a feel for how strong a nations starting army is before you send it out on turn 1. The only ones that I can think of off the top of my head is MA Abysia and Ashdod though so its not very common.

Keep in mind that losing your starting army can hurt much more than getting an extra province can help.

Corinthian · #10 November 22nd, 2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

What's the reason why you'd prophetize an expensive mage instead of a scout or commander? H3 priests come to mind, but getting to H4 is not that useful early on.

The main reasons include getting H4 and the fact that prophets dont cost any upkeep. A Niefel Jarl will cost you 20g/turn yo!