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Old January 16th, 2004, 05:50 AM

Trebor1503 Trebor1503 is offline
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Default Love Concept, But have Issues

Ok... first let me say I want this game to work so bad I can taste it. But for that toi happen I need a few things. Also I have read the other Posts on this board adn realize that some of the things I mention below are mentioned elsewhere, please read the posting fully to understand why I put it all together instead of spreading it out between the different areas.

1. The balance between injuries and training to recover you rlost points is all out of whack. I have had several injuries where I have lost over 20% of my stats. By my calc it would cost $200 X 20 to get back the 10 points lost in each Category of a 50 point person.$4000 is excessive when you can only have 3 people in your stable. You are almost forcing us to cut players.
Solution (?) - Perhaps a 5th icon [rest] which would bring a player back up to his former numbers over time and then auto go off when resting will no longer do him any good.

2. Fatigue - I think this has no place in the game for the following reason. In the seasons I have played the top person has hade over 25 points each time. If you rest your people one out of four events you have to win 20 out of 30 events to stand a good chance of making the playoffs: that is 66%. my manager is always around 55-60%. I have never made the playoffs. But here is the real problem. I do not see the computer players resting, because they are not part of a stable.
Solution (?) - assign the computer opponents to managers, make them sit out when injured, randomly for rest. Level the playing field.

3. By everyone's own words, gambling is a break-even component to the game. If it is such then it is unneccessary because you can get the exact same effect out of the game by not gambling.
Solution (?) - Make the gambling odds based and weigh it on the win / loss record of the people fighting.

4. Telling your fighter what stance to use (defensive / normal / aggressive) To me these mean nothing because I have nothing to relate them to. I also can't see what the outcome would have been if I had selected differently.
Solution (?) - Give a detailed page on each fighter... you can use words that discribe in general terms what his stats are. You could use words like cautious or manic to indicate what fighting style fits them best. Words like large potential and medium upside can help us know how much we can expect out of them in training. In real life a good manager knows his players, you much give us a tool so that we can know our players.

5. Training is to costly and slow. This links back to the injury problem. If I am going to try and win I need my guys fight ready, I can not be spending a half season building them up after each injury. And the costs are high.

6. For consistancy sake, If my guy has 23 WP left adn goes down with a ankle sprain, put in the wording that he went down, and that it is a -23. That way I can see my fighter go to 0.

7. For consistency sake, I recommend a better way for doing kills. If a fighter gets to 0 (using reg and #6) he is out of action... but if he gets to -10 by way of a powerful Last blow then he dies. This would add a level of understanding by the players that does not right now exist. At least we would know why our guy died.

I know this is a lot... and that you might feel I am harping but I really like the game! I just am finding it to be very frustrating to play and fear this will drive me and others away from it over time.

Other things to think about adding:
Suggested recovery time to an injury report. If my guy breaks his leg tell me that it will take 10-12 days for him to get healthy again. At least I have something to go by instead of shooting in the dark.

A full listing of the scores for the season, instead of just the top 8. I found it hard to keep track of where my 3 guys ranked halfway through the 3rd or forth season and had some injuries. It showed me who my highest ranked was but I couldn't remember how many points the other tho guys had.

More stats. If this is a game of stats then give us reports. Show us head to heads for each person. Show us The amount of time since the Last injury for each. The popularity of each fighter so I can help gage my crowds verses what the computer is drawing to his bouts. etc

One additional roster space for a guy. Call it injured reserve. All a guy in this spot can do is rest. But it allows you much more flexibility in your managing of the team.

Manager the computer like a human. Create 8 computer teams. Give them money. Give them the ability to buy enchantments, training, potions (and the ability to get caught), and get their players suspended. Leave out computer gambling if you think it would be to hard to code.

What computer managers open up for you:
Ability to "trade" fighters between teams.
Ability to do hotseat multiplayer by subbing in a real person for a computer at the beginning of a season.
Ability to have the game feel more ballanced.
Ability to have other teams bid on your players when they are auctioned.
Ability to bid on computer players auctioned guys.

I hope you take these Items and run with them. A few changes to the world you have created would make it so much less frustrating to me and would decrease the learning curve for many I am sure. The curve is not in how to play but how to understand what affects what and how it affects it. Game On!
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Old January 16th, 2004, 07:20 AM

StormcloudCreations StormcloudCreations is offline
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Default Re: Love Concept, But have Issues

I have read your issues, and appreciate your suggestions. Some I will address, and some fall outside the focus of the game. To create a computer "AI" manager would require a lot of work and the game wasn't designed this way. The story is basically that the rest of the warriors in the league are regulated by the Kingdom itself, and you're the first "outsider" allowed to put warriors into the league.

To address your points by number:

1. Bear in mind injuries themselves don't reduce a player's stats permanently; just until they heal. Disease occasionally reduce stats permanently, but usually only a point or two.

2. When fatigue is placed into the game for the forthcoming patch, a small season fatigue modifier will also go into place for the other warriors in the league, to balance it out.

3. Gambling WILL be changed the way you suggested for the patch; i'm adding odds based on their season records and stats.

4. I agree, and in the patch after this one (2.0) I will be adding more detail about warriors so that you can better determine their strengths and weaknesses (such as Ratings for Clutch peformance, injury-proneness, etc).

5. Again, losses from injuries are not generally permanent, so you don't have to "build them back up". I tried to make training a natural, slow process (like real life), otherwise, magic and potions would lose their meaning if you could build up a guy too quickly.

You aren't "harping" at all! I'm listening, and probably plan on adding many of these things to the game.

Recovery time for injuries: probably a good idea, though not really "realistic". I tried to make it so that recovery time is variable and may change, so displaying it might make it too mechanical and not reliable data wise. I may add it anyway, though.

More stats: Definately! With this patch, all of the past champions will now be stored for display with their records that season, as well as the current season records to go along with the career records for warriors. A league "records" screen will be added too later.

Hope all of this sounds ok to you and makes you feel better!
Stormcloud Creations
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Old January 26th, 2004, 12:27 AM

dire dire is offline
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Default Re: Love Concept, But have Issues

I am thinking instead of a recovery time, have the stat percentage gradually reduce over time until it hits zero. So for example if they have a sprained ankle and the stat hit is 10%, have it reduced by 0 to 3% (depending on manager's healing and whether warrior is training or fighting) over the next few days until it reaches zero. It is also realistic because it simulates how injuries gradually get better over time.

I would also like a ladder that contains all fighters as the original poster suggested. At the moment your top figher is always listed at the top of the ladder so you have to compare your points with that of the fighters in the ladder to see exactly where your figher is in the ladder. It would be nicer if all your fighters were appropriately positioned in the ladder (and highlighted so you can see them at a glance).
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Old January 26th, 2004, 03:02 AM

old fat bald guy old fat bald guy is offline
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Default Re: Love Concept, But have Issues

More stats and more detail about fighter's styles and personalities. The more the better, the more they'll seem like real people and the more goes into managing them.

If you meant you're going to make "clutch" and injury-proneness visible stats ... . I believe they're in the current Version, but hidden, right? You get a pretty good idea about "clutch" over time -- it's that guy who, when he's down to 2 points and his opponent has 8, seems to win more often than not. Making it a visible stat when you sign the guy will detract from both realism and difficulty. (Real managers in any sport know, when they're considering signing a guy, whether he's fast or strong. They don't know whether he'll choke.)

And if having computer-managed "teams" to balance things out isn't feasible, how about just having a pool of subs (could be the same as the pool of the unsigned guys, especially if you make that pool a little larger) and have the computer plug them in for guys who are recuperating from injuries? I've seen good men die when they're fighting with a 45% handicap and their durability is very, very low, and that seems pretty cruel and senseless even for the gladiator business.
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Old January 26th, 2004, 11:00 AM

Aikamun Aikamun is offline
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Default Re: Love Concept, But have Issues

I agree with Old Fat Bald Guy, on the Clutch rating. Should not be visible, but the manager would just have to judge by looking at the long-term record.

Proneness to injury, would also be evaluated over time. Newly captured slaves will probably not be carrying their medical records with them. This would also have to be observed over time by a medical file kept by the game.

More stats would be a good thing. Championship Manager has lots of stats available which look difficult to judge, i.e. Decisions, Creativity, Determination, Pressure, Professionalism, Morale,
Current Playing Form,

Other stats look to be part of Coliseum's Ratings, i.e. Anticipation, Balance, Aggression, Finishing,
Pace (top speed), Positioning, Stamina, Strength, Technique, Work Rate, Agility, Reflexes, Condition. These are some of CM's invisible attributes: Adaptability, Consistency, Versatility, Important Matches, Injury Proneness, Loyalty, Pressure, Professionalism, Temperament, Vision. Maybe some of the current numbers could be sub-divided into additional stats.

These stats from CM could also be nice:
Flair = The gladiator automatically generates more attendance
Dirtyness = Generates more kills. But may also provoke a better performance from wary opponents.
Height / Weight = Height would give someone a slight reach advantage and greater weight could slightly absorb blows better.

For training during the season, it does not seem like the manager is nearly as capable as other hired trainers. My manager had good stats but my main fighter did not progress in stats. Maybe we could hire a training staff for better training results.

Spent enough time on this post. Will come back and add to it later.

Thanks, Derek, and good luck to all fellow gladiator managers.

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Old January 26th, 2004, 09:54 PM

old fat bald guy old fat bald guy is offline
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Default Re: Love Concept, But have Issues

Ah, a fellow Championship Manager fan!
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