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  #1  
Old June 1st, 2006, 03:02 AM
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Default Obat15 - Australia


Firstly am I correct in assume that this is a purely Aust OOB and not a joint Aust/NZ one?

I am not sure if it’s worth making any corrections to this but there are a few points of interest.

1. The Infantry Company structures from mid 1950’s to end 1964 are out of whack with regard to official documentation. (Inf Trg Vol 4, ADF pub)

2. The armour, tanks, was supposed to have been fixed for version 2, but there are still the inaccuracies, (vers 2.5), Matildas, Grants, Churchill’s, etc.

I raise this as the changes to the Inf Coy structures would have a main impact to any existing scenario for that period.
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  #2  
Old June 1st, 2006, 07:28 AM
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Default Re: Obat15 - Australia

The Australian OOb is Australian. No NZ.

The formations were all put together with help from Dallas Gavan, who is in the Aus armed forces, and who contacted other branches to get the orgs.

And there were 51 Churchills used in the Australian army, as well as Grants and Matildas used postwar. http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/Resea...hill/Chill.htm

Cheers
Andy
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  #3  
Old June 1st, 2006, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: Obat15 - Australia

OK..
Firstly I did not say these tanks were not around, its a matter of termination date. Though I doubt it matters as I do not from memory ever recall any of these tanks leaving Australia.
As for the infantry srtuctures there would be some level of disagrement re sources and results eg:

Inf Coy of Inf Battalion – 1953
(source “Redcoats to Cams, A History of Australian Infantry 1788 to 2001; WO2 Ian Kuring, Australian Military History publication, 2004)

Each Coy has 3 Pls and each Pl has 3 sections

Coy HQ
. 2 Offrs, 10 ORs
. 2 x LMG
. 1 x 2” mor
. 1 x Universal carrier

Rifle Platoon x 3
Each platoon has a Pl HQ and 3 Rifle Sections as:
Pl HQ
. 1 Offr, 9 Ors
. 1 x 2” mor
. 1 x 3.5 RL
Rifle Section , 3 per platoon as:
. 10 Ors
. 1 x LMG

Inf Coy of Inf Battalion – late 1950s, (approx ‘56)
(source “Redcoats to Cams, A History of Australian Infantry 1788 to 2001; WO2 Ian Kuring, Australian Military History publication, 2004)

Each Coy has 3 Pls and each Pl has 3 sections and a Support Section

Coy HQ
. 2 Offrs, 8 ORs

Rifle Platoon x 3
Each platoon has a Pl HQ and 3 Rifle Sections and 1 Support Section as:
Pl HQ
. 1 Offr, 2 Ors
Rifle Section , 3 per platoon as:
. 9 Ors
. 1 x LMG
. 1 x SR, (Sniper Rifle)
Support Section
. 9 Ors
. 2 x 2” mor
. 1 x 3.5 RL

Inf Coy of Pentropic Inf Bn, 1960 – 1964
(source “Redcoats to Cams, A History of Australian Infantry 1788 to 2001; WO2 Ian Kuring, Australian Military History publication, 2004)

Each Coy has 4 Rifle Pls and a Weapons Pl, each Rifle Pl has 4 sections, the Weapons Pl has 1 section Mor and 1 section RL

Coy HQ
. 2 Offrs, 15 ORs
. 2 x GPMG

Rifle Platoon x 4
Each platoon has a Pl HQ and 4 Rifle Sections as:
Pl HQ
. 1 Offr, 3 ORs
Rifle Section , 4 per platoon as:
. 9 Ors
. 1 x GPMG

Weapon Pl x 1
Pl HQ
. 1 Offr, 3 ORs
Mor Sect as:
. 9 ORs
. 2 x 81mm mor
RL Sect
. 10 ORs
. 3 x 3.5 RL

As it stands with the current OOB the Pentropic structure has been left out.
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Old June 1st, 2006, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Obat15 - Australia

Ok - will add the pentropic in that time frame (but no adjustment to the AI pick, it is not nice to try to adjust the DAT files ! - so for Humans only.

Andy
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Old June 1st, 2006, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Obat15 - Australia

Added pentomic Inf Co
2xrifle section - (gives us the 2 LMG, if a bit over in man count)
4xpentomic rifle platoon
1xpentomic RCL section
1xMortar section

Added Pentomic rifle platoon
4xRifle Section (10 men each, roll the HQ in with that)

Added pentomic RCL sec
3xInf-AT
1xScout (makes up the 10 men)
- With the mortar section, that makes up the support platoon, and as a separate formation, you can place it in the rear without worries about C&C of the RCL det which will likely work up front of the coy.

cheers
Andy
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Old June 1st, 2006, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Obat15 - Australia

OK. Thanks.

With respect to the human, are you interested in the Support Coy structure. I have this for a few years, 50's through to now, light, Mech and Motor Inf.
Inf Sp Coy Pls are not quite the same as RAA equivalents.


With the Engineer tanks, why was the Grant Dozer and Matilda Dozer left out?

With teh Flame tank you only have the Matilda Frog, yet there was the Churchill Crocodile available in the same time span. It did not vanish after WWII as they really arrived at the end of the war.
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Old June 1st, 2006, 03:56 PM

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Default Re: Obat15 - Australia

TDR, on a seperate note, would you happen to have TO&E for SASR units for the Vietnam era? They're also left out of the OOB. I redid the RAR for my VN Pack, but wanted to include SASR as well.
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Old June 1st, 2006, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Obat15 - Australia

There are no Grant or Matilda dozers as a) we have no info on such and b) we have no icons for such. (But see Churchill AVRE.)

Support coy structure is not really interesting, as this would be broken down and attached to rifle coys, not bought as a "lump" really. Use mortar, missile, etc platoons as required and cross-attach.

Crocodile - verified, 2 examples of supplied to Australia with the 51 other Churchills. Added.

Churchill AVRE - verified - 2 examples of supplied with the other 51 Chulrchills. Added. (Although there is a question as to whether these were petard equipped, as the issue is in doubt and the only AVRE we have (UK OOB) is petard fitted, used that)

(Several (about 3) ARV Churchills supplied or converted - but entirely irrelevant to the game)

Churchill MkVIII - "almost half" the Churchills supplied were the CS version with 95mm CSH. Added this and allowed till 72. Extended CS tank formations to 72. Added a "mixed Church Tp" with 2 infantry tank and 2 CS tank to allow for that.


Cheers
Andy
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  #9  
Old June 2nd, 2006, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Obat15 - Australia

SASR is a little gray. The OOB/TO&E for this is seldom as detailed.

Quote:
thatguy96 said:
TDR, on a seperate note, would you happen to have TO&E for SASR units for the Vietnam era? They're also left out of the OOB. I redid the RAR for my VN Pack, but wanted to include SASR as well.
Anyway attached pic of what I do have for 69 - 71 era. That should cover the formal issues.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 427235-SASR_69-71.jpg (49.7 KB, 121 views)
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  #10  
Old June 2nd, 2006, 12:19 AM

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Default Re: Obat15 - Australia

Yeah, the weapon thing as noted on the picture is sketchy. I have enough pictures to work that though. So I'm getting from that breakdown that every SASR Trp (A-D) has 20 guys in it. Is that further broken down into teams and is it even? 4 5-man teams?
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