So what is this new game Demigod?

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by theenemy

They kinda stole the Dom concept with their 'demigods'.

I don't think so. The concept of a 'pretender' arising to odhood has been used in many games.. from populous (the first I can think of) to black & white, to PBEM games to Steve Jackson's Angel Games iirc...

[Illuminated One]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

Or perhaps the computer strategy games market isn't that competitive?

I can only speak for myself but I buy one or two games a year, mostly when I get them cheap. That's less than the games released each weak. I don't know how much the production of the average game costs but I do get the feeling that there's way too much games than anyone can play or that they are sold often enough to make it really worthwhile for most.
Quality helps only if you can get the game to be noticed and played in the first place.

[Gregstrom]

There are way more games than anyone can play, which to me says that you don't need to sell a game to a very large percentage of consumers to make a profit.

I believe a mainstream game (multiformat release) is a decent commercial success if it sells a million copies, which isn't exactly much on a global scale. After all, there are perhaps 20 million PS3s (hopefully a conservative estimate) in consumer hands - if we assume that the other two console formats have similar global sales that's 60m consoles. Heaven knows how many game-capable PCs there are. But... it seems you can get a big success if not even 1 in 50 potential customers buys your game.

For a small dev team and a single-format game, I'd guess you don't need very many sales to break even, and thus I think there's a lack of competitive pressure.

[Agema]

A big difference between many indy developers and major developers is that indies are doing it out of love and maybe a salary top-up, whereas majors need to make a living from it. Most indy developers I know make their games as a hobby, whilst holding down a day job (which may be also as a game programmer doing some contract work).

Apparently it takes about $5-10 million for professionals to produce the average game, and the developers get 20% of the retail price. Assume $50 for a copy, and shifting 1 million copies looks about right to break even at worst.

[Gregstrom]

That doesn't sound too unreasonable for an AAA title. If you're aiming lower, then I'd guess costs can drop noticeably. Is that the cost to the publishers, btw?

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

That doesn't sound too unreasonable for an AAA title. If you're aiming lower, then I'd guess costs can drop noticeably. Is that the cost to the publishers, btw?

Game developers won't get rich unless they make a huge seller such as Diablo or Halo or Max Payne or something. Publishers "feed" several game developing companies, so that they'll get at least few huge successes that will then be turned into franchises. Shrapnel's blog has few articles on niche games, retail and economy. They were an eye-opener when I read them some years ago. Most games don't make even, and most games get discounted FAST to make shelf-space for new titles. Creating a game can easily take over a year, and then it's sold for month for 50$, then another month for 20$, and then for 5$.

It probably isn't always that bad, but the image I have from the game-creation business is enough to make me want to seek work elsewhere. Unfortunately, I'm currently studying game-dev. Hopefully I can use the same skills to create tv-ads or something else, where at least your salary won't depend on the amount of sales generated by the ad (as calculated by the contractor's clerks). Not only that, but at least I wouldn't have to work on the same project for years at a time.

I'll have to mention that indy developers can make fantastic stuff, and at least some of them work full-time on their games, these days. They often start by trying to survive with their savings and trying to generate money via pre-order sales with open betas or alphas (Mount & Blade, Overgrowth), and/or with donations (Dwarf Fortress). They may try to get their games published by a publishing company, either via retail or online services such as Steam (or that Stardock alternative, and there are probably others as well).

There's also the firms that make smaller games for mobile phones, hand-held consoles or for the bigger consoles' online stores. They're probably somewhere between indy and big game developers, as far as the risks go. I don't know about profits. They might be a pretty big market, but the last console I had was the first Playstation so I have no idea.

[Zeldor]

Endoperez:

We had some discussions in IRC about that, you should join sometimes

I think that most companies don't make profit because:
- they don't make games for players, but for bosses
- people that make that games would not play them
- they have no idea about the market
- they still live in 90s and don't know that Internet exists
- they don't care about customer service [well, EA somehow lives well with that]
- DRM
- wrong distribution system

And there are some more Anyway, I'm still months away from releasing my game, so I am not yet able to tell more about that earning part

[Agema]

Degrees are versatile things, and the specialisation within a field doesn't necessarily mean that much when looking for jobs or further education: it's often more about emphasis rather than different skill sets when compared to related fields. For instance, a bachelor's degree in one area of the biomedical sciences would qualify you for a job in pretty much all of them.

* * *

It's not just the games industry. Apparently 90% of all acts signed to music labels lose money for their publisher, it's just the remaining 10% generally make much more than the 90% lose. It's often worth sticking with them because they never know when one of those 90% will release a song/album that will make them big. I imagine it's similar in movies and books, too.

[llamabeast]

You're making a game Zeldor?

[Zeldor]

Yeah. Get on IRC if you want to know more