Magic shield effects

[Graeme Dice]

Originally Posted by Psycho

A lot of misinformation in this thread. Let me try to clarify:

You've added a lot too. It's too bad that the other people who would be able to correct you don't bother posting here anymore.

- Eye shield's effect is MR negating

Correct.

- Vine shield's effect is MR negating

Incorrect, and obvious if you've ever used it against something with high MR. It affects even the elemental royalty every single time they attack. It affects every single unit that attacks, which is improbable even with MR 10 attackers.

- Both effects are checked for each melee attacker on the target

Correct.

- Both effects are checked before hit (so entanglement from vine shield prevents the hit to occur and losing the second eye from eye shield pretty much also prevents the hit to occur)

Absolutely incorrect. Units with a vine shield are clearly damaged by units that are also entangled that turn.

[Finalgenesis]

Thanks, I'll do some testing!

[Squirrelloid]

I can guarantee vine shield is not MR negates. It triggers way too often for that to be true.

Edit: Apparently should read second page before posting.

[chrispedersen]

Many times people will see unentangled men next to a vineshield, and assume MR is involved.

There are many reasons such a unit would not have attacked in the first place. Sufficiently negative actions points is one; fatigue another.

[thejeff]

Or simply broke out this round and thus didn't attack.
So if I understand this correctly: given sufficient strength (most thugs and SCs), you'll get to attack a vine-shielded opponent with every other attack action?

[Psycho]

Hmmm, I guess I was wrong after all. Units that get entangled do actually get to attack on the turn they get entangled. It's really funny how I managed to miss this in all this time playing Dominions. Well, I am sorry I spread this misinformation, but it's a good thing it is corrected.

As for the rest I said, it still stands. Squirrel, diceman and others - instead of posting your beliefs, you'd be better served by testing things. Finalgenesis, as you can see, not even the basic mechanics are completely clear to the veteran players of this game, so the best advice is to test whenever you are not sure of something.

[Action]

So Vine Shield doesn't check MR, but works on everyone no matter what, although they get to swing first?

Amazing if true, but seems to agree with in game testing (that first round of combat often makes or breaks borderline thugs with vine shield)

So at a minimum, it reduces attacks by 50% (attack one turn, break out one turn, attack one turn, repeat, but often a lot more vs low strength units?

Confirms my opinion that it's way more broadly useful than gleaming gold, although gleaming gold is probably better for really wimpy mage thugs facing PD etc.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally Posted by Psycho

As for the rest I said, it still stands. Squirrel, diceman and others - instead of posting your beliefs, you'd be better served by testing things.

If it checks MR, as you claim, then you should be able to produce a debug log demonstrating this with about a minute of work with the debug mod.

[Kadelake]

The vine shield does NOT always trigger on attack, just test it and see.

Would it be possible to see the game mechanics in the debug log? It would be great if someone familiar with the log would test vine shields, eye shields and the Medusa shield

I've assumed that the eye shield is non-resistible. I had SC with 25+ MR lose his eye in his first attack. (On second though, I think that SC was using the Mage Bane. He must have had 30+ MR) I've Also assumed that the Medusa shield (and ordinary gorgon petrification) used a MR check with a -4 penalty or something like that. I've had anti-thugs with 18-22 MR drop like flies against the medusa shield.

[Gregstrom]

Some shield effects have surprisingly good pen - I've seen some noted as pen 12 previously on the forum.

While the vine shield doesn't always trigger on attacks, it seems to trigger a whole lot more often than a standard MR check would.