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  #101  
Old March 30th, 2012, 01:49 PM

Valerius Valerius is offline
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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

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Originally Posted by Calahan View Post
patzers
A what? Daaannngit, speak American.

* googles patzer *

Hmm, so I'm not a newb. That means I just got called a ... You wanker!
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  #102  
Old March 30th, 2012, 03:01 PM

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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

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Originally Posted by HoleyDooley View Post
Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless on how strongly you feel they are wrong.

I love CBM, for me it makes the game 1000% more enjoyable, if you don't like it feel free to say so (politely) and enjoy playing vanilla. I am just using that as an example.

That is the beauty of playing wargames, people have their own and varying opinions on strategies and nations. Otherwise we would be stuck playing chess.

Express your opinion by all means, questions others opinions by all means, but do it nicely.

Remember strongly word posts usually come across MORE strongly than they were intended and can cause friction.
Well said!

I kind of view builds as falling in different categories:

Optimal: Here you are trying to minimize luck as a factor. You're looking for a build that will build on your nation's strengths and cover for their weaknesses.

Viable: This approach can emphasize a certain aspect of the nation, trying to build on that strength at the cost of leaving yourself vulnerable in other areas (especially over the long term). While this approach isn't optimal it can certainly still be a competitive approach. It can also be very fun, allowing you to try something different.

Uncompetitive: This would be going against the grain of the nation, trying to them into something they're not. As an example, at one point I decided I wanted Eriu to become a blood nation - not dabble in blood mind you, but have it as an endgame strategy (note that SDRs were available - even I wouldn't have tried it without them ). Uncompetitive approaches can be fun as well but you're going to need a lot of luck in order to have a chance.

I view playing Man with a level 9 bless as falling into the viable category. It may not be optimal but I certainly don't think it falls into the they can NEVER win category.


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Originally Posted by Shangrila00 View Post
That's not really the issue. Yes, having a pretender that can break you into S/D is great depending on your luck with indies. But it's just as important to have a storm stave in the mid-game so you can do battle magic without needing to use a super vulnerable and slow crone, or bust out flaming arrows to compliment your excellent archers or various other assorted battle magics that your national mages can't do by themselves.
The crones are certainly a pain with map move 1 and are fragile but I don't think you can rule out battle use and just confine them to the lab. But if you really need to boost your A2 mothers so they can cast storm the ESN pretender I mentioned can forge a crystal shield.

But I want to loop back to N magic because N is Man's strongest path. What I'm curious about is the 1 in 4 mothers who have N3 and what kind of damage they can do with flood of life (gems/booster required for that one), hex and mass polymorph later in the game. Air magic may have more punch on the battlefield but N is what you're best at and I'm curious just what can be done with those spells. Seems to me there was deliberate effort in the latest CBM to make N a better offensive path, with a special national spell for Man. Was that successful?
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  #103  
Old March 30th, 2012, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

I think, N already has enough ways to deal with lonely thugs - vine arrow, stream of life (against self-buffing thugs), polymorph, charm... What it lacks is a good, low-level chaff-killer. Flood of life needs a ton of +N to be really effective, Storm of thorns is so high in Evo it may as well be non-existant, poison/sleep clouds need time to work and have friendly fire issues.
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  #104  
Old March 30th, 2012, 03:27 PM

Shangrila00 Shangrila00 is offline
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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

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Originally Posted by Valerius View Post
The crones are certainly a pain with map move 1 and are fragile but I don't think you can rule out battle use and just confine them to the lab. But if you really need to boost your A2 mothers so they can cast storm the ESN pretender I mentioned can forge a crystal shield.
You need to take the pretender sleeping rather than imprisoned for that to matter, and that hurts if you are running a high bless. Man can't take sloth, and pretty much must take Growth 3, so it's hard to squeeze out acceptable scales under those limitations and still have a high bless with a sleeping pretender. What pretender were you talking about? Man has the best E/N bless chasis in the Lord of the Forest, but you can't really affordably add S to that.
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  #105  
Old March 30th, 2012, 04:38 PM

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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

Yeah, I was looking at LotF. The old age thing is a pita. This is why the only old age nation I play is Aby and I just put boots of youth on every warlock I recruit.

How about a sleeping Arch Druid (another excellent pretender, though sadly you won't have meese manning the walls of your forts) with A2E9S2D1N4 dom 6 and completely neutral scales. Pay for growth with temp scales. Would really like to get magic 1, though. And it bugs me a bit that you can't boost your way to rings of sorcery but it does open up some nice stuff like hidden in sand.

One other factor here: forest of the ever young will knock 40 years off the caster's age, which will cover most of your mages with one casting. Costs 2 gems and gives you 10% insanity. That give you a bit of a safety net since you could have the mages that get bad afflictions cast it and then have daughters heal them up.
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  #106  
Old March 30th, 2012, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

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Arch Druid with A2E9S2D1N4
Hm, what for do you need A2 there?
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  #107  
Old March 30th, 2012, 04:47 PM

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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

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Quote:
Arch Druid with A2E9S2D1N4
Hm, what for do you need A2 there?
Had 8 points left and couldn't do anything else with them.
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  #108  
Old March 30th, 2012, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

For the same cost you can get sleeping E9N4S2 Lord of the Forest. You loose 1D, but get lots of chaff and titan-sized chassis, vulneurable to Mind Duel - but still able to do some thrashing against non-astral nations.
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  #109  
Old March 30th, 2012, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

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Costs 2 gems and gives you 10% insanity.
15%, IIRC.
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  #110  
Old March 30th, 2012, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

You could also use transformation to deal with old age. But what old age really? Crones start with N3 and will get N4 like 31% of the time. For the ones with N3, transformation is always an option. Probably better than the forest of the ever young as it also gets rid of the upkeep.

No, the only thing that is mandatory for MA man is production scales.
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