.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

BCT Commander- Save $8.00
winSPWW2- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT > TO&Es
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 3rd, 2023, 12:26 PM
Roman's Avatar

Roman Roman is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Córdoba-Argentina
Posts: 602
Thanks: 81
Thanked 60 Times in 45 Posts
Roman is on a distinguished road
Default Cost Armata vs Leopard 2 a7v

Hello. I am playing a PBEM game Russia vs Germany. And I have seen that the Leopard 2 at 7v is a very strong tank. The best opponent is the Armata t14. I ask why the Armata costs 539 and the Leopard 2 to 7v costs 438? The Armata has ATGM and the leopard does not. But the Leopard has a lot more armor.
I did a light internet search on cost and maybe the Leopard is more expensive. What will reality be like?
__________________
"We are free and nothing else matters"
Jose de San Martin.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 3rd, 2023, 12:41 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 12,227
Thanks: 3,798
Thanked 5,390 Times in 2,687 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Exclamation Re: Cost Armata vs Leopard 2 a7v

Game "cost" has NOTHING to do with a units cost in RL. It is all determined by the cost calculator and every unit is "costed" using the same formula.

there are a host of factors that can change that, one being unit EXP and MOR but that is only one and having ATGM IS another

EDIT


If the 6 Invar-m are removed and 6 sabot put in their place the baseline cost of the T14 drops from 539 to 456 points which is still more than a 2A7V but by a much smaller amount so the ATGMs are the main reason for the difference---( and why Merkava 5 Barak's with 12 LAHAT are 743 points each)- but the Russian 125mm 2A82-1M gun also pushes the cost up a bit. That weapon is new base on recent info. That gun is only used by the Armata and it has a muzzle velocity reported to be on average 400 m/s (1300 f/s) faster than the rounds used by a T-90 for example. That's a huge jump in velocity and gives the gun a sabot pen of (allegedly) 1,000 mm at 0° at 2000m (allegedly) and therefore has a considerably higher sabot pen in the game

This does not make them invincible as testing has shown but if it hits you, it will usually hurt, but, that gun only adds 16 points to the cost of an Armata with ATGM so the 6 Invars are the main reason for the cost difference

We really won't know how effective the new gun will actually be for probably a decade.....if then, unless there is a tank battle soon that proves something one way or the other. The added velocity is not going to increase barrel life though.
__________________


If you find you are constantly reacting to your enemy's tactics instead forcing the enemy to react to yours, you are losing the battle....

Last edited by DRG; June 3rd, 2023 at 03:49 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 3rd, 2023, 06:26 PM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,929
Thanks: 440
Thanked 1,853 Times in 1,217 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Cost Armata vs Leopard 2 a7v

ATGM tend to be expensive items. Especially modern ones with added "special sauce" features like multiple charge warheads or top attack.

Me, if an OOB has a choice between an MBT with and without those cannon-launched ATGM then I usually plonk for the ones with (say) 6 more cannon rounds as they are far cheaper. Even taking the Close sSupport version if there is a C/S tank variant.

I prefer to have ATGM on a separate platform doing overwatch in a support vehicle type manner. If I have to use the cannon launched ATGM variants of MBT then I usually switch that weapon line off so I can manually fire the things at what I determine is a valid target - not letting them pop them off in random opfire on some little tin can that wanders into LOS.

So, personally not a fan of MBT - or even light tanks - like say the M60A2 "Starship" and the M551 Sheridan in the 70s with ATGM as a primary or secondary AT round. If I could have those 2 with all HEAT ammo (and HE too - bigger bangs are better bangs!!) then I would be a happy bunny
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mobhack For This Useful Post:
  #4  
Old June 4th, 2023, 05:10 AM
Aeraaa's Avatar

Aeraaa Aeraaa is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 592
Thanks: 161
Thanked 345 Times in 208 Posts
Aeraaa is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Cost Armata vs Leopard 2 a7v

Worst is the Turkish M60T with LAHAT. 502 cost for a tank that can be killed by a M48A5 frontally.

And yeah, I'm not a fan of ATGM equipped tanks for this reason.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 4th, 2023, 07:05 PM
Suhiir's Avatar

Suhiir Suhiir is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,829
Thanks: 542
Thanked 792 Times in 600 Posts
Suhiir is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Cost Armata vs Leopard 2 a7v

They have their uses, but I generally agree.
__________________
Suhiir - Wargame Junkie

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 4th, 2023, 07:23 PM
Roman's Avatar

Roman Roman is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Córdoba-Argentina
Posts: 602
Thanks: 81
Thanked 60 Times in 45 Posts
Roman is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Cost Armata vs Leopard 2 a7v

What I can say based on my game that I'm a few turns into is that I also prefer not to have atgms on the Armata because they don't even tickle those Leopards. The cannon is effective.
But you would have to change the oob and you would not be able to use the change in pbem
__________________
"We are free and nothing else matters"
Jose de San Martin.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2024, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.