Balanced Nations

[Foodstamp]

That's funny because I was thinking Agartha looks like the powerhouse on that list .

[WingedDog]

Originally Posted by Nikelaos

I think bogarus would quite easily dominate that group played properly. Their one weakness is they are vulnerable to rushes... and there are no rush nations on the list.

Actually properly played Bogarus can rush anyone (well, almost anyone).

[OmikronWarrior]

Originally Posted by WingedDog

Actually properly played Bogarus can rush anyone (well, almost anyone).

I would love to hear how to pull this off.

Now, I understand that Bogarus has good mages and good research, but their troops with the exception of their cavalry are just a good scare from fleeing or dieing. So, they either go SC Pretender and have weak scales (which means very limited cavalry). They can get ahead on research, but not to the point where they can dominate armies before its time to go to war with neighbors.

So, a good fit with the rest of bums I picked out, but it has been a while since I've played LA.

[Nikelaos]

simple, only use voi archers and cavalry. No need for an awake SC take productivity scales and the cavalry expand perfectly well even against the usual feared provinces filled with heavy cav and crossbows.

with a rainbow sage (not necesarry, they'll do fine without an awake pretender) they can get conjuration 2 researched in 2 turns, that means simargls which means high tax + patrolling flying patrol bonus dogs = money = forts = more Druzinha. And with that same rainbow sage chassis you've got conj 4 (minimum) and a couple of site searching starets by the start of year 2.

I don't understand why everyone is so critical about the troops, yes they are crap, so don't try to use them. How come people can look past machaka's weak troops to go all out spiders (+archers) early game but can't do the same with Bogarus? The way I look at it bogarus is like machaka with a late game and faster research.

Dominate was probably not the best choice of word, though I honestly think they'd have the advantage...played right.

[Squirrelloid]

Actually, LA TC is the powerhouse on that list, followed by Agartha. LA TC is probably the 2nd most powerful LA nation, after Mictlan.

That said, i don't have the best feel for the quality of enough LA nations to really choose out 6 of them that are balanced. Possibly:

Ulm
Marignon
Bogarus
Abysia
Man
Ctis
Patala

Choose 6

At least, it looks plausible at first glance.

Of course, most of these nations play totally differently from each other.

[Nikelaos]

I'll be honest and say that I haven't played much LA TC, and fiddling with them today I must concede that yes they are the most powerful on the list.

As for Agartha I tend to have trouble playing them. Though I can see where their strengths are I guess the playing style just doesn't mix with me.

I will still maintain that I believe Bogarus is underrated, however I wouldn't want to turn this thread into a "bogarus debate".

[OmikronWarrior]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Actually, LA TC is the powerhouse on that list, followed by Agartha. LA TC is probably the 2nd most powerful LA nation, after Mictlan.

You would put TC and Agartha ahead of R'lyeh and Ermor in the LA? They are my 1 and 2 respectively. Of course, maybe that was one of those things that go without saying.

[Nikelaos]

R'lyeh and ermor are most powerful, but probably too powerful. That and their dominions mean they are very likely to be ganged up on. Still I would say they d still hold the advantage.

[ano]

I always wonder if anyone has really tried playing LA R'lyeh after the major nerf that occurred in one of the patches (Pop kill rate GREATLY increased). People seem to just be accepting the "uberness" of R'lyeh by default while in reality it is an absolutely worthless nation now. If someone once shows me how they can be played effectively, I'll be just happy as they're probably the only nation in all eras that I have nearly no idea how to play with a chance of success. That's why I would never ever pick them in MP now.

Ulm
Marignon
Bogarus
Abysia
Man
Ctis
Patala

I'd definitely add Pangaea here and remove Marignon (although maybe Pangaea is too weak). Mari is a very effective nation with a little bit weak early game (actually, it depends on your build) but quite powerful later on. C'tis is also a very powerful nation and their only problem is probably, lack of good troops early on. But something like Caelum, Pythium, Atlantis may all be good options for this list.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by OmikronWarrior

You would put TC and Agartha ahead of R'lyeh and Ermor in the LA? They are my 1 and 2 respectively. Of course, maybe that was one of those things that go without saying.

LA R is a middle-of-the-road nation at best. They have bad expansion and quickly run out of cash to buy the mages which you run on. Then ~1/3 of their freespawn is absolutely worthless tritons. Oh yeah, and did i mention that their freespawn costs money in upkeep? With their population dying like flies, its really hard for LA R to keep a steady income to supply their mage needs. LA R is not powerful.

LA E isn't that powerful. They're only powerful if you play with a bunch of n00bs. They've got a weak early game, and they have a hard time keeping up with mages because they have to spend gems for all their mages, and their mages aren't even notably efficient in cost. LQs provide more RPs per gem than Dusk Elders or even Spectators. For comparison, a Mg0 LQ is as efficient (gems/RP) as a Spectator under Mg3. So LA E just loses the research war. Then pop Solar Brilliance and watch ermor's armies disintegrate. LA E is only overpowered when it can break combat mechanics by having too many units. Of course, Flames from the Sky fixes that problem, as will Solar Brilliance given enough time. (Kill enough units and the over-abundance of units will cease existing and stop breaking combat). And undead are not exactly good units, so you have time. Oh yeah, and should ermor happen to rout, all those undead remaining go poof.

LA Mictlan and LA TC are vastly more powerful than LA E. Its not even close.