.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

BCT Commander- Save $5.00
winSPWW2- Save $6.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPWW2
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 29th, 2020, 12:53 AM
Felix Nephthys's Avatar

Felix Nephthys Felix Nephthys is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: CA, USA
Posts: 106
Thanks: 41
Thanked 59 Times in 33 Posts
Felix Nephthys is on a distinguished road
Default PBEM Fail Problem

So I'm playing a PBEM scenario with another player and there seems to be problem (see the pic below). I am the Japan player and the person I'm playing against is the Great Britain player. At the start of turn 9 should I be worried that the other player may be engaging in a little cheating? I'm also wondering how I got 5 fails credited to me when I haven't had a single problem playing the scenario so far.Click image for larger version

Name:	Annotation 2020-04-28 213206 (2).jpg
Views:	165
Size:	32.7 KB
ID:	16019
__________________
"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old April 29th, 2020, 03:19 AM

sigeena sigeena is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 289
Thanks: 3
Thanked 115 Times in 71 Posts
sigeena is on a distinguished road
Default Re: PBEM Fail Problem

That's highly unusual. I would say that this community is quite matured (yes, old), and if it is an actual case of cheating, it's quite odd.

Otoh, could it just be a glitch? I don't really see any value in cheating. Playing single player against the AI is cheating. Playing PBEM is all about the suspense. I have enjoyed games when I was near losing, just to pull off a draw and it was alot more rewarding than steamrolling the uncomplaining AI.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 29th, 2020, 04:03 AM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 3,286
Thanks: 95
Thanked 592 Times in 470 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: PBEM Fail Problem

That's very odd perhaps something is corrupted what turn are you actually on?
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 29th, 2020, 07:42 AM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 10,770
Thanks: 2,492
Thanked 3,974 Times in 1,981 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: PBEM Fail Problem

Open the GG and read the PBEM Security Information "Loads quits and Fails" section.
Quote:
PBEM Security Information

During turn execution in secured PBEM games, press the 1 key to see statistics on how many loads , quits and FAILS of the game were done by both sides. If you have a crash, and have to load the game turn again from the received zip, let your opponent know you had this problem, as the load counter will be increased and a FAIL number will appear. If the loads and quits are not equal, perhaps your opponent is having severe technical difficulties?, ask him about this. However, you should also be aware that one reason for getting fail messages is he is playing out a turn over and over to get a better result. If you play someone who's games give fail messages regularly and seems to do no wrong while playing the game I would suggest you find a new opponent! Game crashes in WinSPWW2 are VERY,VERY RARE. The most likely reason for a FAIL number in this game now is your opponent is cheating. It IS possible to get confused and extract an old turns zip file and this is one very good reason to extract the zip when you get it and NOT save it in the PBEM folder!!

Loads quits and Fails


( This will appear on the bottom left of your screen when the game loads. You can press "1" anytime to review these numbers )

Loads is incremented each time you start your turn - including restarting a saved off turn in progress. Quits is incremented each time you press "end turn" OR when you press the up-arrow key to save a game in progress to continue later. if you save off a game in progress many times, this count will increment that many times. So if your opponent comes back with a high number of loads and quits for one turn, he is likely to be someone who plays the game in small "nibbles".

Your opponent's count of loads and quits should be equal. In your current turn, your load count will be 1 greater than the quit count, as you have not yet ended your turn or saved off to finish later.

The Quits counter will be less than the load count for your opponent if his game was stopped in mid execution of the program for some reason - a crash, power failure or whatever.

There is a third total - for Load Fails. If the game is reloaded and the code thinks this is the case, then the load failure count will be incremented. The load failure counter is the best check on reloads by your opponent. An occasional reason for this happening is likely to be a technical glitch. However, if this is happening continually, perhaps he is making multiple reload attempts to replay his turn. ( a polite way of saying he's cheating)

A warning message is displayed if the game thought your opponent had a load failure. NB - this is not 100% reliable if you are playing a secure PBEM on the same machine as your opponent, in the same folder, due to file inconsistencies. If you really need total security to play secure PBEM against someone on the exact same PC, it is therefore best to install another copy of the game in a differently-named folder (or on another hard drive). You each play in separate installations, with different file paths, and so the game code will find it easier to detect inconsistencies. In this case you will need to copy the game files from one installation to the other on change of player.



You only stated part of the problem. You wonder about the 5 fails credited to you but didn't question why he shows 413 fails?

Trying to imagine what two people did in a PBEM that would generate that many fails is impossible. As well you have 10 loads and 9 quits showing which is normal for the number of turns you have said you played...... but player 2 is only showing 3 loads and 3 quits along with the 413 fails.

If this was a game issue it would be reported constantly
__________________

Last edited by DRG; April 29th, 2020 at 07:49 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 29th, 2020, 11:14 AM
Felix Nephthys's Avatar

Felix Nephthys Felix Nephthys is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: CA, USA
Posts: 106
Thanks: 41
Thanked 59 Times in 33 Posts
Felix Nephthys is on a distinguished road
Default Re: PBEM Fail Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp View Post
That's very odd perhaps something is corrupted what turn are you actually on?
Turn 9 as I said.
__________________
"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 29th, 2020, 11:17 AM
Felix Nephthys's Avatar

Felix Nephthys Felix Nephthys is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: CA, USA
Posts: 106
Thanks: 41
Thanked 59 Times in 33 Posts
Felix Nephthys is on a distinguished road
Default Re: PBEM Fail Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Open the GG and read the PBEM Security Information "Loads quits and Fails" section.
Quote:
PBEM Security Information

During turn execution in secured PBEM games, press the 1 key to see statistics on how many loads , quits and FAILS of the game were done by both sides. If you have a crash, and have to load the game turn again from the received zip, let your opponent know you had this problem, as the load counter will be increased and a FAIL number will appear. If the loads and quits are not equal, perhaps your opponent is having severe technical difficulties?, ask him about this. However, you should also be aware that one reason for getting fail messages is he is playing out a turn over and over to get a better result. If you play someone who's games give fail messages regularly and seems to do no wrong while playing the game I would suggest you find a new opponent! Game crashes in WinSPWW2 are VERY,VERY RARE. The most likely reason for a FAIL number in this game now is your opponent is cheating. It IS possible to get confused and extract an old turns zip file and this is one very good reason to extract the zip when you get it and NOT save it in the PBEM folder!!

Loads quits and Fails


( This will appear on the bottom left of your screen when the game loads. You can press "1" anytime to review these numbers )

Loads is incremented each time you start your turn - including restarting a saved off turn in progress. Quits is incremented each time you press "end turn" OR when you press the up-arrow key to save a game in progress to continue later. if you save off a game in progress many times, this count will increment that many times. So if your opponent comes back with a high number of loads and quits for one turn, he is likely to be someone who plays the game in small "nibbles".

Your opponent's count of loads and quits should be equal. In your current turn, your load count will be 1 greater than the quit count, as you have not yet ended your turn or saved off to finish later.

The Quits counter will be less than the load count for your opponent if his game was stopped in mid execution of the program for some reason - a crash, power failure or whatever.

There is a third total - for Load Fails. If the game is reloaded and the code thinks this is the case, then the load failure count will be incremented. The load failure counter is the best check on reloads by your opponent. An occasional reason for this happening is likely to be a technical glitch. However, if this is happening continually, perhaps he is making multiple reload attempts to replay his turn. ( a polite way of saying he's cheating)

A warning message is displayed if the game thought your opponent had a load failure. NB - this is not 100% reliable if you are playing a secure PBEM on the same machine as your opponent, in the same folder, due to file inconsistencies. If you really need total security to play secure PBEM against someone on the exact same PC, it is therefore best to install another copy of the game in a differently-named folder (or on another hard drive). You each play in separate installations, with different file paths, and so the game code will find it easier to detect inconsistencies. In this case you will need to copy the game files from one installation to the other on change of player.



You only stated part of the problem. You wonder about the 5 fails credited to you but didn't question why he shows 413 fails?

Trying to imagine what two people did in a PBEM that would generate that many fails is impossible. As well you have 10 loads and 9 quits showing which is normal for the number of turns you have said you played...... but player 2 is only showing 3 loads and 3 quits along with the 413 fails.

If this was a game issue it would be reported constantly
I've no idea why he shows 413, except I regularly get the message "Has your opponent restarted?" before I put in my password to start my turn. The explanation from my opponent is that he's playing on multiple machines.
__________________
"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 29th, 2020, 12:49 PM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,644
Thanks: 171
Thanked 1,556 Times in 1,050 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: PBEM Fail Problem

Secure PBEM must be played on the same machine.

Secure PBEM stores it's data on a database on the originating machine and not in the savegame file so it has to be played on the machine you started the session on. Otherwise you will get garbage reported as you have seen here.

If you need to play with someone who uses multiple machines for some reason, you will have to use regular PBEM.

if you require secure PBEM (say for a competition game) then both players must each choose one machine for the game and stick to that box for the secure game. So if your opponent is travelling and uses his laptop when away, he should have started the secure match on that one and not say, swapped back and forwards with his home machine and his laptop. Or use his home machine, and not play turns on his laptop when away from home.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 29th, 2020, 01:19 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 10,770
Thanks: 2,492
Thanked 3,974 Times in 1,981 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Exclamation Re: PBEM Fail Problem

Yes, knowing right from the start he was trying to use multiple machines for secure PBEM would have been GOOD TO KNOW.......

From the GG

Quote:
Basic PBEM security was designed for people who, for one reason or the other, cannot complete a PBEM game without something causing a game halt be it altered OOB's or trying to play on two different machines
Secure PBEM must be played on only one machine, using the same OOB's as the opponent and in the same PBEM save slot

Ask whoever it is you are playing to decide which machine he wants to use or move to basic security

Also from the GG
Quote:
if you want ( or need ) to be able to play on two machines ........then BASIC security may be for you.
__________________

Last edited by DRG; May 4th, 2020 at 01:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old April 29th, 2020, 02:08 PM
Felix Nephthys's Avatar

Felix Nephthys Felix Nephthys is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: CA, USA
Posts: 106
Thanks: 41
Thanked 59 Times in 33 Posts
Felix Nephthys is on a distinguished road
Default Re: PBEM Fail Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post
Otherwise you will get garbage reported as you have seen here.
So this would account for why there are 5 fails listed for my side but there is still an accurate count of loads and quits for my side as well?
__________________
"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old April 29th, 2020, 02:34 PM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,644
Thanks: 171
Thanked 1,556 Times in 1,050 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: PBEM Fail Problem

Any secure game which is not properly played is toast. The statistics will be corrupted by at least one player's database being incorrect.

Are you using secure mode for some particular reason (eg competition)?. Otherwise - regular PBEM mode is good enough for friendly games. And it would allow your opponent, if he needs to work aay from home and use his laptop, to play turns while at the hotel rather than only when at home on weekends.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2021, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.