.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Bronze- Save $10.00
winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPWW2
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 19th, 2012, 02:42 AM

Shorebreak Shorebreak is offline
Private
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shorebreak is on a distinguished road
Default Smoke overrated?

Just finishing up a multiplayer assault/defend scenario and again I am getting overwhelmed by smoke. Doesn't matter how good my defense is, smoke just clogs up all the firing lanes and troops can just walk right up and then use their own smoke. As far as I know, smoke via artillery was never really that effective, mainly due to a little thing called WIND. Just look at the battle of the Seelow Heights for example. In SPWW2 though, smoke via artillery is fairly precise and last three turns, which is almost a lifetime in the game. It almost seems broken. Of course, I have no problem with infantry using smoke grenades, as they were often used to great effect against bunkers and snipers, but spamming cheap field howitzers and mortars just for the smoke seems like an exploit.

Anyone else have an opinion on smoke?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old November 19th, 2012, 04:05 AM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 3,299
Thanks: 97
Thanked 600 Times in 475 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smoke overrated?

In game terms perhaps placing smoke by arty is slightly more effective as its easier to judge where to place it than it would be in real life. Of course this is countered by the fact that many other means of producing smoke are not modeled.
As to duration yes wind is always the same strong winds are not modeled, but smoke was used & maintained very effectivly & of course smoke grenades dont last half as long as shells. Screening for several hours or even I think days did indeed happen using smoke generators.

As to the other things you mentioned most armies realised this & had doctrines along these lines
Smoke hampers defence far more than attack, planing of firelanes is therefore cruicial.
Be prepared to defend important locations by hand to hand combat.
Be prepared to counterattack once the smoke starts lifting.
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 19th, 2012, 09:24 AM
Rosollia's Avatar

Rosollia Rosollia is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 215
Thanks: 12
Thanked 63 Times in 39 Posts
Rosollia is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smoke overrated?

You should agree to limit the ammount of artillery with your opponent. If you have enough artillery to provide an effective smoke screen AND shoot high explosives to suppress all the defenders then you have way too many artillery assets.

Then again what did you do with your own artillery? The enemy was advancing in the cover of a smoke screen and if you bombard his advancing infantry they should suffer heavy casualties and rout.

Quote:
spamming cheap field howitzers and mortars just for the smoke seems like an exploit.
And if you buy realistic forces then there would be no problems.

Bottom line beign:
Try to adjust your rules before crying out to adjust the game mechanics. If you buy realistic forces you should get a more enjoyable game.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old November 21st, 2012, 09:34 PM
Spledge's Avatar

Spledge Spledge is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA - USA
Posts: 84
Thanks: 33
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Spledge is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smoke overrated?

I'd be interested in learning how many points were allowed for arty purchases in your game Shorebreak.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 22nd, 2012, 11:23 AM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is online now
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,693
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,617 Times in 1,081 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smoke overrated?

It's the number of arty pieces that contributes - so lots of cheap ones may also help the attacker if he wants lots of smoke.

Attack and assault missions result in possibly more smoke ammo being given out than e.g. meeting engagements. (A larger random number is used).

But as advised above - if the enemy is using a smoke screen, then simply drop HE on his side and pepper the hidden troops. One of the best uses for your MRL is splatting massed concentrated infantry caught advancing in the open. i.e. MRL are more of a defenders weapon than an assaulters.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 22nd, 2012, 12:55 PM

wicked wicked is offline
Private
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 38
Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wicked is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smoke overrated?

What is mrl? I typed it in googLe just to see if I could find a meaning and got Montana Rail Link ? Plus a few others. Iam pretty sure that's not what it is short for.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 22nd, 2012, 01:23 PM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is online now
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,693
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,617 Times in 1,081 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smoke overrated?

Multiple Rocket Launcher - an extremely common military acronym.

Googled it and about item #5 was the Wikipedia MRL disambiguation page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRL
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mobhack For This Useful Post:
  #8  
Old November 22nd, 2012, 01:27 PM

Griefbringer Griefbringer is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 378
Thanks: 1
Thanked 69 Times in 63 Posts
Griefbringer is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smoke overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosollia View Post
Then again what did you do with your own artillery? The enemy was advancing in the cover of a smoke screen and if you bombard his advancing infantry they should suffer heavy casualties and rout.
Yep, smoke screen popping up should be an indication that there are likely to be some folks advancing from that direction sometime soon. Having your mortars pounding that area should make life uncomfortable for them.

Besides mortars and artillery, also MG units can be used to spray smoke-covered areas with Z-fire. And by my understanding, it is by no means gamey - historically MG units in defensive positions seem to have determined some pre-set fire lanes that they could spray under conditions of poor visibility.



As for the MRL abbreviation, that stands for Multiple Rocket Launcher, ie. any of those multi-barreled affairs that can fire a whole salvo of rockets rapidly.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:18 PM
Spledge's Avatar

Spledge Spledge is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA - USA
Posts: 84
Thanks: 33
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Spledge is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smoke overrated?

In addition to limiting art tubes in pre-game negotiations, have PBEMers also employed an agreement on limiting the actual number of smoke charges deployed during a game from arty?

Hypothetical:
- Some agreed to number of total arty tubes.
- Then a number of actual smoke rounds deployed during a game is agreed to also. Example, during a given game, only 6 {or another number} deployments of smoke total from arty. Direct fire and infantry deployed smoke rounds not counted.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old December 19th, 2012, 08:39 PM
gila's Avatar

gila gila is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 898
Thanks: 45
Thanked 60 Times in 54 Posts
gila is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smoke overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spledge View Post
In addition to limiting art tubes in pre-game negotiations, have PBEMers also employed an agreement on limiting the actual number of smoke charges deployed during a game from arty?

Hypothetical:
- Some agreed to number of total arty tubes.
- Then a number of actual smoke rounds deployed during a game is agreed to also. Example, during a given game, only 6 {or another number} deployments of smoke total from arty. Direct fire and infantry deployed smoke rounds not counted.
As for myself,there is never an agreement on smoke.

I'd allow smoking on first turn,or whenever, but never first turn arty bombarding.

Using smoke can be an double edged sword as an opponent can use it in his favor if there is no shellacking follow-up.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2022, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.