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  #1  
Old June 25th, 2005, 03:50 AM
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Default obat28 Netherlands

Updated 01/06/05

Initial modified Netherlands OOB now attached.

tanks
leo 2 - earler Leo 2 A1 added (No 83) - formations were OK but the early Leo2 was not present.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/fennek/
Fennecks - ISD was 2004, some early ones at this date (specific scout formation is 2006)
- the remote control 12.7 gun is an autocannon, so can fire AAA at helos while supressed
- scout versions have 4 carry to carry scouts
- fenneck MRAT, does not fire the weapon, is ground fired - changed to a carrier only
- 262 - added FOO version with GSR (pic on that page at top)

56 - YPR 765 PRI replaces lynx scout vehicle later (has TI as scout version)
(lynx with normal scouts left in the OOB)

104 - YPR765/radar - own class - recce vehicle with GSR for the specific formation

204-8 increased to 5 men, to flesh out the mech inf platoons a bit. Should fit all year's mech inf
, for all section No 3's (usually AT weapon(s) + 1 of these, or MG/AT+1 off)
217 - end date was before start - is a dupe of 208, added a 7,62 MAG as per posts from the forum,
as an optional coice btween it and 208 (minimi) AT-4 to 3 per posts.

295 - YPR 765 PRI - for some scout formations, replaces lynx-25 from 96

410-414 - mech scouts for cavalry formations, have AT weapon and lmg.

420 - YPR-765 MRAT - carries 2 MRAT teams - own class and own formations

Formations
141 - removed the SPAAA
142 66-82 Armoured recce platoon (2nd rate coy) per notes on the forum - 2 light tanks
146 78-82 as 142 with 2 medium tank section
150 - replaced original (in case of pick list problems) - detachment 1 vehicle+1 mech scout team
155 - as 146, but later 83-95, with medium tanks, (to ensure no gap in pick list)
165 - as 155 - but with section of 2 MBT
169 - Armour recce platoon 96-105 per notes on forum (YPR-based)
177 - fennek based armour recce platoon, 106=2020
207 - mech recce (with a special GSR vehicle at CHQ) - from forum notes - 78-95

236 - the fennek recce section
237 - the lynx/YPR recce section
238 - infantry section (2 mech scout teams) for the armoured recce platoons

241 - Mech inf co with MRAT ATGM platoon instead of SP-ATGM platoon 2006-2020

245 - fenneck MRAT platoon
246 - YPR MRAT platoon

249 - fennek MRAT section, 1 per vehicle
250 - YPR MRAT section - 2 launchers per vehicle

rifle, engineer, marine platoons - to 4 sections per platoon from 3.
Rifle platoons 3 rifle sections + an inf-AT, from 80+ they get an inf-ATGM as well.

3 dragons copied from inf-ATGM to inf-AT class (rifle platoon can therefore buy an AT-4 and a dragon team,
or 2 of dragon - but different class

Mech coys with an attached SP-ATGM platoon - changed to a SP_ATGM platoon

257/258 - per forum notes 2 Lt tank and 2 AMX-TOW per platoon.
original AMX-13 coy/pl to 4 tank platoons, not 5

187 - motor rifle coy with fenneck motor MRAT - a platoon of 4 + section of 2 as fulll 12 unit platoon
(6 launchers and 6 fennecks) will not fit the 10 unit platoon limit.

MRAT/SPIKE/GILL - all the same missile in different sizes (ranges).
dragon replacement - MR (50 hexes)
TOW replacment - LR (80) hexes
helos - ER (160) hexes
Attached Files
File Type: zip 361525-Obat028.zip (15.8 KB, 338 views)
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  #2  
Old June 25th, 2005, 03:32 PM

Jaws43 Jaws43 is offline
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Default Re: obat28 Netherlands

Hello here I have my remarks, based on my own experience and duty in several units. I'm a senior Cavalry NCO in the Dutch army and serve since 1981.

Leopard 2A4 start serving at 1 July 1983 at 41 and 43 tank battalion.At 1 january 1984 at 103 armoured recon batalion.
At this moment in the orbat the Leopard started serving since 1995??

Dutch recon units since 1966.

Recon platoons in a armoured Squadron (Eskadron) and Battalion.
A Recce platoon consist
1966 until 1975
5x M113 C&R with .50 call MG (2 sections of 2 and 1 platoon commander),
2x Tank started with AMX 13/75 in 1966 and ended with Leopard 1 in 1975 (normal updates were placed like the AMX 13/90),
1 M113 with a infantry squad and
1x mortar vehicle.

1975 until 1995.
5x M113 C&R with 25MM canon Oerlikon (crew had 3x LAW, 1x MAG 7.62mm (1 per section) and 3x UZI 9mm, 6 hand grenades and a signal weapon,
2x Tank started with Leopard 1 in 1975 and ended with Leopard 2A4 in1995 (No updates were made only in 1990 to Leopard 2 A4A1,
1x M113 with infantry squad (1x MAG 7,62mm, 1x Garl Gustaf, 3x LAW, 9x FAL FN 7,62mm) and
1x M106A1 (Crew of 6 man with FAL 7,62mm). (M106 was removed in 1990)

From 1995 until 2006

7x YPR 765 PRI (3 sections of 2 and 1 platoon commander) (3x weapon Dymaco C8 per vehicle and a MAG 7.62mm in each section)

2006 until.
8x Fenneck LVB (Licht verkennings en bewakingsvoertuig) Light recon and surveillance vehicle) With a BAA head with terminal sight and laser. Further a .50 MG last generation, Squar radar per section, and 3x Panzerfaust latest generation with night vision per vehicle. Each man carries a Dymaco C8 and each commander also a clock.

Then we have a mechanized recce platoons (tank and infantry battalions had them) from 1978 until 1995.
5x YPR 765 CO with .50 cal,
1x YPR with RADAR,
1x Landrover,

Now I go to the Squadrons (Eskadrons)
1966 until 1995
3x Recce platoon and 2x RADAR (RADAR removed in 1990)

And the battalion
3x Recce Squadron and 1 Support squadron.

If you have any questions pleas ask.

Regards.
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Old June 25th, 2005, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: obat28 Netherlands

Question re the fennecks - if they have TI already, there may well not be any point in adding ground surveillance radar in game terms. (in real life the GSR has some advantages in certain weather conditions, but the SP system does not have weather rules as such).

or - is the GSR a ground mount used by the dismounts? - if so, it can be added to a scout team.

Cheers
Andy
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Old June 25th, 2005, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: obat28 Netherlands

Quote:
Mobhack said:
Question re the fennecks - if they have TI already, there may well not be any point in adding ground surveillance radar in game terms. (in real life the GSR has some advantages in certain weather conditions, but the SP system does not have weather rules as such).

or - is the GSR a ground mount used by the dismounts? - if so, it can be added to a scout team.

Cheers
Andy
Isn't a GSR supposed to have even better vision rate, like 60 or more?
I know there is no real qualitative difference (maybe there could be? ), but if a vehice has TI and GSR, i think the higher should prevail, provided it can be used anytime, including on the move. Otherwise it is just spotting ability, or in the best case dismount radar.

BTW, why are there so few GSR teams couting as such in the OOBs? Like scout teams, as you said, or OP teams following radar type and comm.

Regards,

Plasma
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Old June 25th, 2005, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: obat28 Netherlands

Oh, and a wholly other question for Jaws43:

Have you any info about the Fennek MRAT?

I know it is supposed to fire Gill ATGMs, but is it just dismount transport, or pintle mount, or a special turret? Or has the program been cancelled altogether?
I found nearly no info on this variant, and since I ahave done new icons for the recon, utility and FO versions I would have liked to add this one too.

Thanks for any info,

Plasma
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  #6  
Old June 25th, 2005, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: obat28 Netherlands

Quote:
PlasmaKrab said:
Quote:
Mobhack said:
Question re the fennecks - if they have TI already, there may well not be any point in adding ground surveillance radar in game terms. (in real life the GSR has some advantages in certain weather conditions, but the SP system does not have weather rules as such).

or - is the GSR a ground mount used by the dismounts? - if so, it can be added to a scout team.

Cheers
Andy
Isn't a GSR supposed to have even better vision rate, like 60 or more?
I know there is no real qualitative difference (maybe there could be? ), but if a vehice has TI and GSR, i think the higher should prevail, provided it can be used anytime, including on the move. Otherwise it is just spotting ability, or in the best case dismount radar.

BTW, why are there so few GSR teams couting as such in the OOBs? Like scout teams, as you said, or OP teams following radar type and comm.

Regards,

Plasma
Some GSR are only vision 50.

There are several AOP teams with GSR, usually slower as thay have to carry the kit.

Scouts with a GSR kit would need to be slowed down too, so not very useful. Plus in modern times they usually can have a TI sight of 40 which is more useful in game terms, especially as the mobility needs no reduction.

Cheers
andy
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Old June 25th, 2005, 05:38 PM

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Default Re: obat28 Netherlands

Quote:
PlasmaKrab said:
Oh, and a wholly other question for Jaws43:

Have you any info about the Fennek MRAT?

I know it is supposed to fire Gill ATGMs, but is it just dismount transport, or pintle mount, or a special turret? Or has the program been cancelled altogether?
I found nearly no info on this variant, and since I ahave done new icons for the recon, utility and FO versions I would have liked to add this one too.

Thanks for any info,

Plasma
it will be 5 dismounted Gills.

Cheers
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  #8  
Old June 25th, 2005, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: obat28 Netherlands

Quote:
Jaws43 said:
Leopard 2A4 start serving at 1 July 1983 at 41 and 43 tank battalion.At 1 january 1984 at 103 armoured recon batalion.
Jaws,

are you sure it wasnt the 2A1 which was introduced 83 ? Im asking because the fourth batch build by MAK and Krauss-Maffei between Dec 85 - March 78 were the first 2A4s (370 vehicles). All vehicles build before 85 were 2A1s and 2A3s and were later retrofitted to 2A4 standards.

BTW: this retrofitting programm lasted until the mid 90s when it was finally complete. I was in Castle-Martin, Wales (battle range - life firing 2A4s) in 91 and 95 were we met some dutch guys who were just making themselves comfortable with the "new" 2A4 hardware. Im a former german Leo2 guy btw.

If you can dig deeper into this issue and find out when exactly 2A1s first appeared in the dutch army and when they were replaced by 2A4s it will really be appreciated.

Quote:
Jaws43 said:
At this moment in the orbat the Leopard started serving since 1995??

Certainly this needs to be looked at.

Thanks for your informative post.

cheers

Helge
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Old June 25th, 2005, 05:41 PM

Jaws43 Jaws43 is offline
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Default Re: obat28 Netherlands

Oh I forgot,


A Squadron from
1995 until 2006,
2x recce platoon,
1x infantry platoon of 4x YPR as infantry units

From 2006 until...
3x recce platoon fenneck,
1x MRAT platoon fenneck
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Old June 25th, 2005, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: obat28 Netherlands

Quote:
TheDesertFox said:
are you sure it wasnt the 2A1 which was introduced 83 ? Im asking because the fourth batch build by MAK and Krauss-Maffei between Dec 85 - March 78 were the first 2A4s (370 vehicles). All vehicles build before 85 were 2A1s and 2A3s and were later retrofitted to 2A4 standards.

At least for that I can trust the little info I have.

The main batch of Dutch Leo2 (445, of which 278 from Krauss-Maffei and 167 from MaK) has been delivered between 1982 and 1986.
They were termed Leopard 1 NL, am I right? I am not sure of any mention of a 2Ax version.
Anyway, they were Leopard 2A1 with some minor differences, like domestic AAMG (Mag58), smokepots, radio and pilot's vision blocks.

I have no info about when or how they were brought to A4 standard.
Anyway the first batch of German A4 in 1985 had only better FC with digital calculator, only later came better armor (batch 6, 1988-1989)

Cheers guys

Plasma
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