.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Air Assault Task Force- Save $7.00
Bronze- Save $9.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT > TO&Es
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #541  
Old July 25th, 2020, 12:45 PM
FASTBOAT TOUGH's Avatar

FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
Posts: 2,249
Thanks: 528
Thanked 939 Times in 698 Posts
FASTBOAT TOUGH is on a distinguished road
Fallout Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

I know somewhere in here I covered some of this ground already to include the retirement of the AC-130H SPECTRE.

Some of the refs below I know are "recalled" from the past/or from my files that I just never acted on for various reasons to be covered at the end, many are not.

So lets begin by ref date order...
First the overview.
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/ac_130.htm

AC-130U SPOOKY...

First "GUNSHIP" retires...
https://www.afsoc.af.mil/News/Articl...pooky-retires/

USAF Factsheet...
https://www.hurlburt.af.mil/About-Us...pooky-gunship/

Final Combat Deployment...
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Disp...at-deployment/

Last ARMED GUNSHIP retired on 19 August 2019...
https://www.dm.af.mil/Media/News/Art...to-retirement/

How they served (This crew is not an exception, but represent the whole.) and part of the reason operationally for my comments below...
https://www.mildenhall.af.mil/News/A...istan-mission/

Major USAF (Those that served in the USAF will understand better probably.) milestone achieved...
https://www.hurlburt.af.mil/News/Art...-with-ac-130u/

CINCLANTHOME has informed me that my time is limited (Lunch/Shower/work/TGIF.

Interim AC 130 Gunship that I believe might still be in service and also to be replaced by the AC-130J GHOSTRIDER (Which might have to wait until EARLY tomorrow morning.)

AC-130W STINGER...
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-She...0w-stinger-ii/
http://www.americanspecialops.com/us...-dragon-spear/


The above are the EARLY models the 30mm GAU would be kept, the 25mm would replaced by the 105mm due to technical issues to include gun targeting issues. Below are for current version...
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...perately-needs
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...owitzer-video/
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/th...omb-1584518199
https://www.airforce-technology.com/...er-ii-gunship/


Just got informed of the time-GOTTA RUN!!

Regards,
Pat
__________________
"If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." - Sir Nicholas Winton

"Ex communi periculo, fraternitas" - My career long mentor and current friend -QMCM/SS M. Moher USN Ret..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FASTBOAT TOUGH For This Useful Post:
  #542  
Old July 25th, 2020, 02:10 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 10,844
Thanks: 2,569
Thanked 4,050 Times in 2,020 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

The problem is two fold
1/ there are few slots left in the US OOB
2/ the "new" generation of gunships deploy weapons that are not compatable with that unitclass in the game and making that happen for what amounts to a very minor niche weapon system is just not likely to happen so you might get one with added GAU and higher EW and FC but that's all
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DRG For This Useful Post:
  #543  
Old July 26th, 2020, 02:54 PM
FASTBOAT TOUGH's Avatar

FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
Posts: 2,249
Thanks: 528
Thanked 939 Times in 698 Posts
FASTBOAT TOUGH is on a distinguished road
Fallout Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

I thought I made a comment that I was going to end this process with some final thoughts concerning the "GUNSHIPS" in general in my last post but, my brain got ahead of my which isn't unusual as some know from past posts. But to get a sense of where I might be going with this, you might want to ask yourself (If you keep up on these things.), Why hasn't he ever summitted the ORBITAL AC-235/AC-295 Light (Pocket) Gunships that we and several foreign countries are using now?
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...verting-06778/

But first I'm not finished addressing the full line of the AC-130 gunships and I pickup with the newest most current version and deadliest by far the AC-130J GHOSTRIDER...
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-She...0j-ghostrider/
(Along with the AC-130W, they can carry in 2 wing mounted launchers 6 to 8 HELLFIRE II missiles.)


Another OVERVIEW...
https://www.afsoc.af.mil/News/Articl...fleet-growing/

The BLK 20 Gunships have been in operation for about 2-3 years now as flown by the 73rd Spec Op SDRN, this next addresses the BLK 30 as the 4th Spec Op SDRN receives it's first one.
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Disp...0j-ghostrider/

And I end this part with a "niche" article, the first all reserve crew to fly a Gunship since 1995.
https://www.919sow.afrc.af.mil/News/...-reserve-crew/

There you have for for the AC-130 Gunships in the last 2 posts of mine-done.

So where does this leave us?

At this point we're 2 aircraft behind the AC-130W and AC-130J BLK 30, I do not include the AC-130J BLK 20 because it's an interim aircraft only until the technologies had "matured" to improve the avionics and electronics onboard the aircraft intended for the BLK 30 models which all will be made into.

My "Deep Process" over these handful of years and I mean from all aspects to include my "emotional" if you will feelings on the subject by the numbers.

1. I truly love these planes from a technical aspect right down to the crews that serve on them to put all the aspects of these complicated machine together in a very unique and deadly weapon. Most importantly the bravery of these crews to ensure the protection of the ground forces they support. Please look up the "Sprit '03".
https://www.wearethemighty.com/histo...2#rebelltitem2
https://www.afsoc.af.mil/News/Articl...03-remembered/
https://www.shadowspear.com/vb/threa...31-1991.19898/
Alright so I helped!


2. They were amongst the first items I looked into for my first "modern" submission format in my Patch/Submission Thread on Pg.5 and more being discussed in the same on Pg. 7 back 2011. And of course prior to and since in the Jets/Plane Thread.

3. What I know and more encapsulated in this one indisputable fact going back to "Puff The Magic Dragon" which at first was just armed with (3) 7.62mm GAU guns. I have verified this information I don't know how many times over the years to include the newer gunships as well.

"The armament chosen for the gunships was the General Electric rotary-barreled M-134 machine gun, known as the “minigun,” which could fire either fifty or a hundred rounds of 7.62-mm ammunition per second. Initially three miniguns per ship would be fixed-mounted in a side-firing configuration. Positioning the aircraft at the proper altitude and angle was the only means of aiming the weapons.

Using this armament, a C-47 flying at three thousand feet in a tight circle could place a bullet in every square yard of a football-field-sized area (five thousand square yards) in approximately 17 seconds.
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/20...e-vietnam-war/
That's over 50 years ago!!!


4.And while considering the above information, consider this also, to save me time in discussing attack capabilities of these aircraft.

An AC-130U SPOOKY in 2011 as posted in my first submission noted above could at that time, track and simultaneously attack 3 targets stationary or moving. That would increase over time. The AC-130W/J can do the same with at least 10-12
targets
.

5. We cannot match the up to 10hr+/- loiter time on station or the exponential increase in ground target combat coverage since "Puff"

6. I have asked over the years about adjusting the flight path to a straight-line or semi-circle (Thinking map, North on top entering from the SE corner to middle of the map and exiting off the SW corner.) to allow it to engage targets of opportunity on it's flight path. I was just trying to think outside the box.

7. LUCKY 7 and Reality; Both Don and Andy were patient enough to inform me of the game realities of the code. If it could be done it would be a massive undertaking, of which I'd never ask them to do.

8. Not long after this I came to the conclusion this platform is probably the most "niche" of ANY piece of equipment in the game. we have, even more so then the MP's I submitted for deletion from the USA OOB. And yes they were deleted.

9. We have always had and will only have 1 50 meter attack hex, "Puff" 50 years ago had a "kill zone" equal a box of 4 50 meter hexes any of the "newer" AC-130 (With possible exception of the AC-130A) Gunships could hit any targets on our maps.

10. We will never benefit as players with the current situation, if there's no benefit why keep it? So from above, I asked you to consider why I never asked for the AC-235/295 to be submitted though I posted on them numerous times.

The better question now, knowing how I love these aircraft and crews is with the information I provided you over the last two of my posts is...Why hasn't he submitted the AC-130W and AC-130J?

I think you have my answer now.

When I first started equipment submissions using the Threads I started for that purpose and news, Don patiently and sometimes more strongly (M-60 RISE submission) stressed the importance of added value to the game and player. I would recognize this more on my own, but the more so recently (Last 8yrs or so.) due to the ever decreasing OOB SLOT situation for many countries.

It's time, I put a lot of work into these over the years from many different angles, however, I would ask to be allowed to submit every Gunship in the USA OOB for deletion.

I have a jet in mind of which there is only one, that was the most prolific fighter bomber in the USAF for at least 12 years and we have only 1 version. To have even 1 or better 2 more would serve the game and players better. And we'd still have plenty of room to get into the game what we need for the last submission to close out 2025 in the game in 2026.

But the Gunships have to go to make that happen. I'm convinced of that now.

AC-130 Gunships "Blue Skies and Following Winds"

EDIT: Just finished my walk does wonders after a great dinner and clears your head. So...Word teched throughout for a better flow of info./#10 moderately reworked./And I present an OPTION so at my very basic level of understanding, I know equipment sometimes get embedded into scenarios and campaigns from the players thus making some equipment removal a PITA.

Understand I ask this from the perspective of any piece of equipment being removed.

Will X weapon system stay "active" once removed from any OOB if put into the "RED" or "GREEN" OOB's for the purpose of maintaining them in game submitted scenarios and campaigns?

I understand in the game I believe for generated games the player could always use them by selecting the Allies button and "RED" or "GREEN" OOB.

I'm just curious is all. I'd still like to see them removed from the USA OOB IF POSSIBLE.

Regards,
Pat
__________________
"If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." - Sir Nicholas Winton

"Ex communi periculo, fraternitas" - My career long mentor and current friend -QMCM/SS M. Moher USN Ret..

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; July 26th, 2020 at 09:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FASTBOAT TOUGH For This Useful Post:
  #544  
Old July 26th, 2020, 06:35 PM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 3,296
Thanks: 97
Thanked 597 Times in 473 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Due to restrictions in the game code gunships are for flavour only they cannot operate as they should do so are not at all dangerous.
Its basically a spotter plane that attacks the hex its plotted to circle on rather than searching for a target near the plot. Therefore if there is nothing in the hex it becomes a very expensive spotter plane.

As its the only unit that operates that way its not worth fixing because you can buy a spotter & cheap ground attack plane for less than the gunship.
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Imp For This Useful Post:
  #545  
Old July 27th, 2020, 06:08 AM
scorpio_rocks's Avatar

scorpio_rocks scorpio_rocks is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 1,004
Thanks: 267
Thanked 400 Times in 291 Posts
scorpio_rocks is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Would the gunship aircraft not work better if they were changed to ground attack class? especially now they are missile armed (Griffins and Hellfires, I believe)
__________________

"Gentlemen, when the enemy is committed to a mistake - we must not interrupt him too soon."
Horatio Nelson.
SPMBT Roundel Objectives Mod
SPMBT Small ID Flags Mod
WW2 Roundel Objectives Mod
Reply With Quote
  #546  
Old July 27th, 2020, 07:22 AM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 10,844
Thanks: 2,569
Thanked 4,050 Times in 2,020 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks View Post
Would the gunship aircraft not work better if they were changed to ground attack class? especially now they are missile armed (Griffins and Hellfires, I believe)
The gunship UC circles the target, The other air unit classes don't aside from spotter aircraft
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #547  
Old July 27th, 2020, 12:38 PM
scorpio_rocks's Avatar

scorpio_rocks scorpio_rocks is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 1,004
Thanks: 267
Thanked 400 Times in 291 Posts
scorpio_rocks is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks View Post
Would the gunship aircraft not work better if they were changed to ground attack class? especially now they are missile armed (Griffins and Hellfires, I believe)
The gunship UC circles the target, The other air unit classes don't aside from spotter aircraft

Yes, I understand that - but the gunship currently can only fire at the one hex not even when it sees a juicy target a couple of hexes away. Whilst converting the AC-130 to a ground attack class loses the "circle the target hex" it does mean it can strafe and/or fire missiles at stuff it "sees" nearby the assigned hex.
__________________

"Gentlemen, when the enemy is committed to a mistake - we must not interrupt him too soon."
Horatio Nelson.
SPMBT Roundel Objectives Mod
SPMBT Small ID Flags Mod
WW2 Roundel Objectives Mod
Reply With Quote
  #548  
Old July 27th, 2020, 01:24 PM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is online now
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,669
Thanks: 175
Thanked 1,583 Times in 1,065 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Circling gunships were brought in for scenario designers to do a Vietnam "spooky" mission for added flavour.

That is all they were meant to do, and nothing is going to change with them. They are a sub-niche scenario designer item.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mobhack For This Useful Post:
  #549  
Old July 27th, 2020, 03:37 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 10,844
Thanks: 2,569
Thanked 4,050 Times in 2,020 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Yep, that's why they were added and they could be moved to the green OOB and open up a dozen slots in the USA OOB...
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DRG For This Useful Post:
  #550  
Old July 27th, 2020, 10:22 PM
FASTBOAT TOUGH's Avatar

FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
Posts: 2,249
Thanks: 528
Thanked 939 Times in 698 Posts
FASTBOAT TOUGH is on a distinguished road
Fallout Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Thank You Don, you answered my question as I poised In the "EDIT" of my last post.

I guess I can within the parameters you set aside and I fully agree with, recheck my data for the improved FC, EW and right now I forgot the third item you had in that post.

Another issue came up while investigating these platforms with the "newer" source data and that's the fact these planes were armored to some degree. It bears investigation but my thinking is something similar to the A-10 comes to mind due to the close nature of their operations.

GREEN will be a fine color for them and the AC-130W and AC-130J BLK30 additions. After all "It's the Luck of the Irish" that comes to mind as in 55 years of operations only 17 aircraft have been lost to combat operations. Of those, 15 in Vietnam and 2 since the last being Sprit '03.

The planes get saved and we get 12 USA slots, sounds REAL GOOD to me as well!! That's a real good deal all-around.

Regards,
Pat
__________________
"If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." - Sir Nicholas Winton

"Ex communi periculo, fraternitas" - My career long mentor and current friend -QMCM/SS M. Moher USN Ret..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2021, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.