So how 'bout those Mets?

I would have liked to post the Last post, but in order to stop it before the replies went like wildfire, I closed the post.

If you feel this is unfair to the community then I am the one to blame.

A flame war, even if warranted (the flaming portion) is not something I would like to promote within the forum and have very actively attempting to avoid.

The point at which the thread name was changed, and the tone taken as obviously deragatory I closed it in the hope that the personal flames would not be kindled to childish levels. (Since Norfleet said he was leaving at least, that persona)

This does not mean I agree or disagree with either side of the coin (I am actually vehemenantly opposed to cheating in any form) but I don't want to turn it into a cruxification.

If you would like to talk about how cheating is possible, explainations, rational discussion about the act and not specifically flaming Norfleet for doing it (We all know it is wrong, underhanded, coincidentally timed and on my part, unexpected) or the reasoning behind it I am fine with such.

But as Norfleet has/is been a subject of repeated personal attacks I had no desire for things to spiral out of control while I had business to do and couldn't watch the forum like a hawk for a few hours.

Thank you for your willing or unwilling cooperation on this matter.

JB

[PashaDawg]

I was one of those Newbies in the game. It was one of my first MP games. Until things got out of hand, there was a great deal of excitement. The legions of death were HUGE and the rest of us were banding together to defeat the evil fetid empire. I came away learning to pick your fellow players carefully (even though I don’t know many of you yet). Also, Storm was very free with good advice in long emails that I have saved for the official archive. I expect that they will be coming out in his forthcoming strategy guide (hee hee), and I won’t do anything at this point to violate his future copyright, etc., etc. Anyway, it was fun while it Lasted, and now I am free for a new game! (Newbie lamb for slaughter & looking to sharpen my claws… any takers?)

[Gandalf Parker]

On the one hand Norfleet had the most deleted Posts, and generated the most deleted Posts, of anyone else in this forum. From his early standings on the subject of software cracking to his latest one of turn-file cracking.

HOWEVER he also generated more conversations, debates, discussions, polls, than anyone else (I believe ThinkTank might be second). When I was an old DnD game master I would survive such encounters by thinking "Well I am blessed for meeting such a unique person. What an interesting NPC he will make." The personality description on my NPC's were often just a name of someone I had once known which no one else seemed to get along with but I was always smiling thinking what a great NPC they would be.

What can I say? Im diplomatic.

[Maltrease]

I had always found Norfleet interesting. Certainly some of his views on life and other issues were different. But thats cause Norfleet is Norfleet, just as Gandalf is Gandalf, and I am... the mighty Maltrease.

[Stormbinder]

I guess I should have learned from the style of diatribe in the whole GG fiasco. If one compares the retorts from that whole scandal, Norfleet and his alter-ego's tones at that time were amazingly similar to this week's.

Hold on. Was you in my "Song of Ice and Fire" game on GG that Norfleet have ruined, Demosthenes? If so, what was your nick there, on GG Boards?

Or did you just read our game thread and compared that alter ego with Norfleet, whom you know from shrapnels Boards?

But in any case, you are absolutely correct, they were very similar, depite their efforts. So I am not too concerned about Norfleet appearing under some other name anytime soon. If he will, we would likely to discover it pretty fast. If everything else fails, watch for some newbie who would write 2500 Posts in few months...

I have to say I learned a lesson from this, again. Again meaning I guess I should have learned this one already... Don't trust anyone. Hmmm....

But wasn't that Norfleet's whole ethos?

The lesson is that people who think that no-one can be trusted, cannot themselves be trusted. One believes that society is a reflection of whatever world-view they have and they go out and manifest that reality upon others. Most people are reasonably good and consciencious. Be careful of anyone who tells you otherwise.

Indeed. Though my life I have came to the personal conclusion, that it is well worth to keep generaly good opinion about people around you, unitl they have proven otherwise. Sure, you'll certanly run in some jerk now and then, and may suffer as a result. But it is better than to become very suspisious toward all people, not trusting anyone and puting all kind of psyhological heavy defenses around you and shooting at everyone who dares come close...

At least this is my opinion on this matter, and it have been working quite well for me.

[Evil Dave]

Indeed. Though my life I have came to the personal conclusion, that it is well worth to keep generaly good opinion about people around you, unitl they have proven otherwise. Sure, you'll certanly run in some jerk now and then, and may suffer as a result. But it is better than to become very suspisious toward all people, not trusting anyone and puting all kind of psyhological heavy defenses around you and shooting at everyone who dares come close...

At least this is my opinion on this matter, and it have been working quite well for me.

Cool! Somebody else who explictly plays the "super rational" solution to the Prisoners' Dilemma.

[Stormbinder]

On the one hand Norfleet had the most deleted Posts, and generated the most deleted Posts, of anyone else in this forum. From his early standings on the subject of software cracking to his latest one of turn-file cracking.

HOWEVER he also generated more conversations, debates, discussions, polls, than anyone else (I believe ThinkTank might be second). When I was an old DnD game master I would survive such encounters by thinking "Well I am blessed for meeting such a unique person. What an interesting NPC he will make." The personality description on my NPC's were often just a name of someone I had once known which no one else seemed to get along with but I was always smiling thinking what a great NPC they would be.

What can I say? Im diplomatic.

Hmm. Now let's not go too far here. It seems to me that it may be a bit *too* much diplomatic approach Gandalf. It almost sounds like you are sorry to see Norfleet gone, after he was undenyably exposed as cheater. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/mad.gif[/img]


I mean - let's face it. The guy has certanly cheated in a large number of MP games he had played, possibly in all of them, although we will never know it for sure. He have hacked the very game whose forum you and Zen are moderating, and he have spoiled countless hours of playing experience for a lot of honest players and customers with his cheating.

Wouldn't you ban him for what he have done, if he would not quit himself after he was publicly exposed? In any computer MP game I have played so far, and I have played quite a few, the forums and Company's policy on the cheaters is very clear. They are baned. Yet here you sound almost as if you are sorry to have him gone after the fact that he is a cheater was exposed.

I agree with some previous posters, I also find(or at least used to find before "Fire and Ice" game) Norfleet to be sometimes funny, usually in some perverted sort of way. Yet I strongly believe that the Moderators policy on the official board should be very clear on cheaters - they should be baned, period. No excusses. You don't want to send message to the community that it is ok to cheat, as long as you can post a lot of bull****, some of which maybe funny, 24h per day, do you?

Forgive me if I am blant here, but I think that aproaching the cheaters in "diplomatic" way is not a good idea. I know that you are nice and extremely helpful person Gandalf, but I just think that it is important that the position toward cheaters should be very clear and hard. Otherwise the MP community will go down the drain.

I hate to say but so far neither you not Zen have not made any official statements on this matter, other than locking my thread with no explanation to public.

Now, I understand very well that both you and Zen do not want any sort of flamewars on the board. But I don't think that just closing the thread with no final post explaining why it was closed, and later maintaining official silence on this matter is the right thing to do either.

/shrug Just my two cents.

Regards,
Stormbinder

[Karacan]

To add an opinion: The Dominions-board will be much, much less interesting to read. I for one enjoyed his quips, attitude and witty remarks - stolen or not.

By the way, nowhere in the dev's Posts it's said that Norfleet hacked something. I certainly have no idea how to achieve those masses of gems, and I find it very unfortunate that Norfleet is not willing to share his side, though likely hard to believe.

*shrug*

It ain't over til the fat lady sings. But she probably missed a note right now.

[Demosthenes]

Hold on. Was you in my "Song of Ice and Fire" game on GG that Norfleet have ruined, Demosthenes? If so, what was your nick there, on GG Boards?

Or did you just read our game thread and compared that alter ego with Norfleet, whom you know from shrapnels Boards?

I was not in that game. I was in Dom2 lurk mode for a while having been on vacation and pulled out of a few MP games at GG. I read all the pertaining threads at the time though. My point was that his method of defending himself was nearly identical in both instances. Vague responses and proud refusals to explain himself.

Hmm. Now let's not go too far here. It seems to me that it may be a bit *too* much diplomatic approach Gandalf. It almost sounds like you are sorry to see Norfleet gone, after he was undenyably exposed as cheater.

Hell I'm sad to see him gone too. The guy's crazy and quite possibly dangerous to others but he sure contributed a lot around here. I'd like him to visit and continue to discuss the game. He would have to of course be big enough to live with the reputation he has garnered and understand if he is not welcome in MP games, but that's life.

We haven't even heard his "honest" explanation. He said it was not something he could control. Those are serious words from Norfleet.

I think this may have to go in the "Wait and See" file for now.

[Gandalf Parker]

What do they say? Better the enemy you know than the one you dont know? There will always be "norfleets". Hmmmm how about that. He created a new word needing to be defined in the newbie guide. Im sure at some point someone will post something and the reply will be "dont be such a Norfleet".
For someone to norfleet, norfleeting, a norfleetism.

Also, as an internet admin managing many forums and Online games, I know that people sent away like this are rarely gone. They simply come back as someone else. Of course, the effort they take not to be recognized instantly means they must refrain from the actions that made them "go away" so the problem is fixed anyhow and not worth making too much effort to catch them at it.