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  #11  
Old September 1st, 2020, 12:31 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: French OOB06 (v.7)

PS.
As for motorized units, I've found an interesting article https://russeurope.hypotheses.org/fi...h-Armament.pdf
(although there is a small inaccuracy, because Dragons Portes were motorized cavalry, not infantry )


It says among others, that at the beginning, all squads were equipped with 2 vehicles (Citroën-Kégresse P19) carrying each 1 LMG and 7 men : in fact 1 half-squad of 6 men + 1 driver. So a Dragons Portés squad had 12 men (1 VB launcher, 2 LMGs) and 2 vehicles.

It fits to 361/362 Chasseurs in the game (apart from name) - each has 6 men and LMG, one has VB, both create one formation 140 GdC Chasseurs
Unit 360 Chasseurs would be a command section with 7 men (number correct according to the book, I don't know if they should have VB).
Therefore, form. 141 Cie Chasseurs is correct (apart from late introduction date and name)

For a sake of completness, 363 Chasseurs (7 men, no support weapons) is used in formation 145 PC Cie Chasseur, with two P19 and one 60 mm mortar - it might be correct.


The article confirms, that a bigger vehicle has been designed (Laffly S20TL for the Dragons Portés) to carry the whole squad, but this time reduced to 10 men, keeping the same armament (1 VB launcher, 2 LMGs).

It also explains, that there was infanterie motorisée (motorized infantry), but:
Quote:
Despite their name they were not fully motorised units, they had no organic vehicles to move all the infantry. They even had an allotment of horses and wagons. Each regiment only possessed enough vehicles to move the regimental and battalion headquarters. The motorized infantry squads of a motorized infantry regiment are classical 12-men infantry squads but carried by trucks or buses (Laffly S20TL and Lorraine 38L are only for the Dragons Portés and Chasseurs Portés units). The troops of the division were moved by a GTP "groupement de transport de personnel" for strategical movements, which when not transporting the division was withdrawn for other duties near to where the regiment was stationed.
So, it confirms, that there were no other rifle units with organic tactical transport other than Dragons Portes with P19 (6+6 men squads), Lorraine 28 and S20TL (10 men squads) or Chasseurs Portes with APC 38L in armoured divisions. According to the book, the 38L with a trailer carried 10 men, a commander (11th man?) and a driver.


Back to Dragons Portes, we have classes:
69 Mechanised Infantry with 7 men, mortar or VB (used as command section - BTW, regular 60 mm mortar in infantry squad looks suspicious)
71 Medium Mech Infantry (#32, 376) with 9 men, LMG, VB
72 Light Mech Infantry (#31, 375) with 9 men, VB

Formations: 067 Pel Dragons and 068 Pel Chasseurs have one 72 class, three 71 class squads and four trucks/APC.

In real platoon there were four S20TL with 10 men, each with 2 LMGs, including a command vehicle (with 10 men - no mention, that they had different armament).
I have no info about company level.

Obviously regular trucks of transport columns didn't carry 10-men squads, but regular infantry squads, probably packed in bigger numbers.

Quote:
Each Laffly S20TL was equiped with two AA mounts, which could possibly be fitted on each aft corner, on each side, and on the center of the first row of rear seats. The devices could accomodate either a FM 24/29, a 8mm Saint-Etienne Mle1907 MG or a 8mm Hotchkiss Mle1914 MG (often two vehicles in a company convoy were equipped with a Hotchkiss ot Saint-Etienne AAMG for the AA protection).
It might explain unit 203 Laffly S20T AA in formation 184 Esc Dragons, with misidentified armament.


The article also states, that ordinary infantry had 12 men squads, each with LMG and VB - in the game units 36/37/152/155 Gpe Infanterie have 10 men and only half have LMGs.
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  #12  
Old November 18th, 2020, 02:59 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: French OOB06 (v.7)

Vichy France OOB 08:

391 Laffly 50 AM - crew should be 4 (now 3), like French one.

408 Laffly 80 AM - should have speed 25, crew 4, size 3, like in French OOB.


Speaking of French armoured cars, P204(f) 2.5cm (#586) and P204(f) 5cm (#587) in German OOB has size 4 - French one has 3 (correct).

Last edited by Pibwl; November 18th, 2020 at 04:49 PM..
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  #13  
Old November 18th, 2021, 12:04 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: French OOB06 (v.7)

032, 380 37mm Mle 1916 - I've just read on Polish military history forum https://www.dws.org.pl/viewtopic.php...693&start=5550 an information, referring to newly found documents, that from the beginning of 1940, these old guns were returned to line units as stop-gap AT guns, receiving new Mle 1935 sabot rounds (used by weapon 12 37mm SA18 m.37 as a tank gun) - and regulation ammo load by then was 112 HE and 80 AP rounds. Earlier, in mid-1930s these guns were withdrawn as obsolete. It was believed before, that only tanks used these rounds.

By the way, all guns of this type could have bigger ammo load - I have no earlier information, but 192 rounds (12 boxes of 16 rounds) might have been applicable. Earlier, only 12.5% were AP rounds (old Mle 1892).

Last edited by Pibwl; November 18th, 2021 at 12:19 PM..
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