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  #11  
Old May 28th, 2009, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Game Tools- Create Single Player Scenario

Sorry, but we're entering the "wishful thinking" territory here...
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  #12  
Old May 30th, 2009, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Game Tools- Create Single Player Scenario

The only thing keeping users from creating awesome scenarios is, IMO, being unable to add custom messages for:
1) starting the game
2) winning the scenario
3) losing the scenario

In addition, it would be nice if messages could be "triggered" with some other events, such as:
4) defeating a certain enemy
5) conquering a certain province (the first time)
6) having a certain amount of victory points/dominion/research/etc (the first time)
7)losing a certain province (the first time)
8) losing your god, prophet, or a spesific unit (probably checked with unit ID number)
9) perhaps getting back the unit of point 8 could also give a spesific message.

The first three would be enough for scenarios. The others would allow the making of full-fletched, semi-random stories.
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  #13  
Old May 30th, 2009, 11:27 AM
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Default Re: Game Tools- Create Single Player Scenario

I guess you're right. The first three might even possibly get implemented by JK if somebody asks him nicely enough. The other proposals prolly won't be implemented unless others are granted access to the game's source code at some time.

What you won't see unless somebody else develops it, though, is a fully fledged scenario editor like Skirmisher likes to see. If somebody cared enough he could develop a third-party tool that takes care of the modding options.
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  #14  
Old May 30th, 2009, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Game Tools- Create Single Player Scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endoperez View Post
The only thing keeping users from creating awesome scenarios is, IMO, being unable to add custom messages for:

In addition, it would be nice if messages could be "triggered" with some other events, such as:
The first three would be enough for scenarios. The others would allow the making of full-fletched, semi-random stories.[/quote]

Some of that I covered in my scenario thread. Start messages and game event messages can be accomplished with the watcher mod and external watching of the game log
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  #15  
Old May 30th, 2009, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: Game Tools- Create Single Player Scenario

Scenario has a scenario command which is broken and useless. It doesnt even allow the features that it did in Dom2. You cant create "player vs AI" that work properly. I cant even upgrade the Dom2 scenarions I had. The fixes arent really major fixes. Even the wishlists mostly involve just changing a command already in the game to work somewhere else.

What I see as a problem for the use of the scenario tag is that it removes things from the game setup list that were never quite given back to us.

Using a #scenario tag on a map puts a shiny star on the map selecting list saying "this is special". The game-setup menu changes:
NOT in Scenario
----------------

Number of Starting Provinces
Strength of Independents
Special Site Frequency
Money Multiple
Resource Multiple
Supply Multiple
Random Events
Special Start Locations
Standard Research
Standard Victory
==================
IN Scenario
-----------

Score Graphs
Hall of Fame
Master Password
Renaming
Cheat Protection

The choices are fine. Those are pretty much the types of things I WOULD like to set in a scenario.

But the items removed from scenario game menu did not get added as map #commands. Nor as mod #commands. They did appear as server switches but that means that the map is only a workable full scenario if played from the server. And the nice star that it puts on the map menu, most of the people running servers never see.

Having server switches as map (maybe mod) commands would be great for making scenarios work better. The server --switches which would make good scenario #commands are:
--mapfile XXX (as a mod command, and enablemod as a map command)
--randmap X (as a mod & map command?)
--research X (map scenario)
--indepstr X (map scenario)
--magicsites X (map scenario)
--eventrarity X (remove from scenario)
--totalvp X (remove from scenario)
--capitalvp (remove from scenario)
--requiredvp X (remove from scenario)
--summervp (remove from scenario)
--richness X (map scenario)
--resources X (map scenario)
--supplies X (map scenario)
--startprov X (remove from scenario)
--nocheatdet (very much needed to make maps, and maybe mods work)
--era X (map scenario)
-M --enablemod XXX (map scenario)


Another important note is that if a god is added to the map file, and the nation isnt in the game, the game creation blows up. That means that you cant add gods for nations or eras which might not get chosen for the game. I would rather that a god added was more "used IF the nation is chosen". Putting a #computerplayer line doesnt seem to help either. I would like for #god to be split to #godai which means "add this god only if AI player". I suppose we would also need an ai version for scales also. At the moment, using a #god in the map forces the change on both AI and players.

It would be nice if #computerplayer would force the nation into the game, and remove it from the players choices.
It will put them in the game, if its a server game.
But not if its a solo or hotseat game.
And either way it will not remove it from choices.

While we are on "it would be nice" for scenarios..
We have
#nostart #start #specstart
But I have some scenarios in mind where it would I need to be able to specify those as applying only to Human or Computer players.

Map commands for temp of a province would allow for temperature zones in large maps which would be a nice addition for large scenarios.

Map commands for when you place units in a province telling them to use their special abilities might be nice. #hide, #preach, #call god, #seduce, #call followers, #instill uprising. Well mostly hide.

#makeprophet command for placing an AI unit and setting it as prophet

At the moment the "blank" nations have ALMOST enough workable defaults to play reasonably well when they are put in a game by map-accessable commands. They have a default god list, default castle structures, default starting units, default PD. Would it be possible to get some default recruitables? They dont have to be great, they can all be the same. Even just 1 commander and 1 or 2 units would help. It can even match the PD.

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  #16  
Old May 31st, 2009, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: Game Tools- Create Single Player Scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
Another important note is that if a god is added to the map file, and the nation isnt in the game, the game creation blows up. That means that you cant add gods for nations or eras which might not get chosen for the game. I would rather that a god added was more "used IF the nation is chosen". Putting a #computerplayer line doesnt seem to help either. I would like for #god to be split to #godai which means "add this god only if AI player". I suppose we would also need an ai version for scales also. At the moment, using a #god in the map forces the change on both AI and players.
#god also only works when specifying the target capital of the god... which really limits many possibilities.

Here's my wishlist of changes for creating maps:

1) Option to disable the arena death match because the AI opponents will foolishly send their pretenders. It's so sad!

2) Option to change/remove/add from Dominions existing mercenaries. Ideally the AI opponents should place higher bids too because they RARELY place a bid beyond 10 gold of the asking price!

3) Option to change/remove/add from Dominions existing random events. If custom events where players/units/items/spells could be specified as map edit commands and specific turns targeted then SP & MP Campaigns could be created.

4) Option to provide one-way provinces using map edit commands.

5) Provide more map edit commands such as #patrol, #war(nation# + nation#), #assassinate, #random_move, #summon_units, #research, etc., etc., . There's a good list inside the Scenarios, Maps and Mods sub-forum.

6) Option to prevent only AI opponents from starving.

7) Option to prevent graph bars from vanishing once a player is killed. Currently the graphs are useless for reference at the end of a game.
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  #17  
Old May 31st, 2009, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: Game Tools- Create Single Player Scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by NTJedi View Post
#god also only works when specifying the target capital of the god... which really limits many possibilities.
This is outright false. When doing the new mapedit manual, Gandalf and I tested this bit extensively based on your feedback and you don't need to specify a #spectstart for a nation if you specify a god. It works just fine even when starting randomly.
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  #18  
Old May 31st, 2009, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Game Tools- Create Single Player Scenario

I think Id say semi-false.
There are certain aspects of what you might expect to do in building a god which error if you dont have a province. But it is possible to build one that is able to be placed anywhere. I suspect that NT_Jedis build was at fault for his impression

But I do feel that there are major lackings in the scenario options for supporting AI gods. In Dom2 I created D.A.R.E. (Deadly Atlantis Rlyeh Ermor alliance) putting those three nations into the game, with gods (sibling dragons), and placed strategically on the map with boosted armies. The scenarion did not allow human players the choice of playing those nations and obviously those gods.

But in Dom3 thats broken. Not only can a human play the added nations with the added god but the game doesnt even remove them from the nations list. Since the AI isnt good enough to be a problem without major boosting I find that a major flaw in scenarios for Dom3. Its not like other games where playing either side would be equally enjoyable. Not to mention that joining as one of the AI nations breaks the alliance command and totally destroys the scenario anyway.
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  #19  
Old May 31st, 2009, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Game Tools- Create Single Player Scenario

Oh I forgot.
Id also like #sleep and #dormant
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