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  #41  
Old January 26th, 2021, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

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Originally Posted by Ts4EVER View Post
Recently a lot of new documents about Russian organizations and tactics in WW2 became available. Maybe this is too big a change, but one thing that was new to me is that starting in mid-1943, every Soviet Rifle Company was supposed to have one rifle platoon replaced with an SMG platoon. I already implemented this in my most recent campaign, but maybe this would be good to officially add to the ToE.
Starting next release the two existing rifle companies will both switch out the last rifle platoon with an SMG platoon 6/43 which will not impact the picklists the game uses so starting 6/43 the AI will pick this up just as the human player will.
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  #42  
Old May 14th, 2021, 09:48 AM
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Exclamation Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

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Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
Sabot ammo was introduced in 4/43 according to this book
I know this is old but it related to another issue we found and are in the process of correcting.

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Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
According to Russian book........
That's nice but which "Russian book" and exactly which shell is the author claiming was "introduced" in 4/43 ? ....and does "introduced" translate as made-it-to-the-front "introduced" or when they started making it because what I keep finding ( when I can find anything at all ) is Russian 76.2mm BR-350P APCR, which is what the sabot pen in the game represents, did not make it to units until October 1943. BR-350A and B APHEBC by their penetration capability are what we class as AP.
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  #43  
Old May 18th, 2021, 03:38 PM

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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

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Originally Posted by DRG View Post
That's nice but which "Russian book" and exactly which shell is the author claiming was "introduced" in 4/43 ? ....and does "introduced" translate as made-it-to-the-front "introduced" or when they started making it because what I keep finding ( when I can find anything at all ) is Russian 76.2mm BR-350P APCR, which is what the sabot pen in the game represents, did not make it to units until October 1943. BR-350A and B APHEBC by their penetration capability are what we class as AP.
This one: SU-76. "Bratskaya mogila ekipazha" ili oruzhe Pobyedy? ("Crew Brothers' grave" or weapon of the Victory?) https://voenka.kiev.ua/products/su-7...oruzhie-pobedy
It says, that in April 1943 there was "introduced BR-354P round into ammo load" (3,05 kg, 950 m/s, penetration 100 mm at 500 m).

However, Russian Wikipedia https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/76-%D0...%D0%98%D0%A1-3) claims, that there was a cartridge UBR-354P (53-УБР-354П), while its round designation was BR-350P (53-БР-350П). Other sources however name the round BR-354P http://www.russianarms.ru/forum/index.php?topic=12611.0 .
There is also an information in Wikipedia, that it was "commissioned" in April 1943.

Unfortunately, I don't know when they got to front. Possibly the round was accepted in April 1943, and then started limited deliveries...

On this forum somebody claims, that BR-350P wasn't produced (it was developed for all 76 mm guns including short ones) and was replaced with more spacialized BR-354P http://www.vif2ne.org/nvk/forum/arhprint/112545

There is a discussion if BR-354P were available at Kursk, basing on information, that it was introduced to T-34 in 10/43, but there are no conclusions. https://trizna.ru/forum/topic/25722-...4%D0%B8%D0%B9/

Last edited by Pibwl; May 18th, 2021 at 03:56 PM..
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  #44  
Old May 18th, 2021, 04:10 PM

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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

I'm afraid there is no clear evidence, that they were available at Kursk... Surely they weren't significant then.

Here somebody claims, that they got to T-34 crews and AT artillery by May, initially in numbers no more than 3. https://reibert.info/threads/broniro...arjady.256855/
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  #45  
Old May 18th, 2021, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

I'm going to go with October '43. No matter what date I pick there will be disputes but for absolute certain, they were not in use 1942 and yes maybe some trickled to the front in time for Kursk but adding units in just to give them a couple of rounds is a waste of time and I would suggest even *if* they were available then the most likely units to be issued something that scarce and specialized would be AT guns or Tank destroyers.

Thanks for digging around for info. I am well aware of how difficult some of this is to sift through

This
http://ww2data.blogspot.com/2015/07/...e-76mm_27.html

gives just about every detail including packaging but no dates but it would seem that for sure by the fall of 1943 there were enough to go around. I have also adjusted slightly their pen and sabot range to better represent their capability. What we had made them a wee bit too powerful at short range and not enough at their max range and their max was a bit on the short side but checking back that sabot range goes back to the very beginning. As Andy pointed out to me having sabot rounds changes nothing in dealing with more common the Pz III and PzIV
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