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  #1  
Old January 26th, 2012, 06:13 PM

JonBrave JonBrave is offline
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Default Fatigue is not very realistic!?

As we all know, Dom 3 is, overall, extremely realistic (e.g. weapon length). This is how real magical armies fight.

However, it seems to me that fatigue-causing, at least, is not If I have a great big weapon and plonk it on a little guy, how does it make sense that he gets the same amount of fatigue with the same effects as a giant brandishing it? Why doesn't he get more tired, or have a lower tolerance than 100?

This has bothered me for a while now. Am I missing something? If we wanted to handle fatigue as realistically as so many other factors are, how should it be done?
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  #2  
Old January 26th, 2012, 07:16 PM

Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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Default Re: Fatigue is not very realistic!?

It's an abstraction.
A giant swinging a 60 pound sword and a hobbit wielding a toothpick don't expend the same amount of effort and exert the same amount of force. But from each of their reference points, they do exert the same amount of fatigue.

Don't consider fatigue as a universal score, but a relative one. One point of giant fatigue is WAAAAAY more tiring than one point of human fatigue. But they're giants with WAAAAY more energy and muscle power, so it's a wash.
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  #3  
Old January 26th, 2012, 07:26 PM

JonBrave JonBrave is offline
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Default Re: Fatigue is not very realistic!?

Errrr, OK. Sooooo, if I understand you correctly, when I put a given sword or shield or armor on someone, I need to think that the item is not "absolute" but rather scaled to the size of the recipient.

Hmm, yet it does the same damage to the enemy. I hear what you're saying, but I doesn't make sense to me.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 07:42 PM

TigerBlood TigerBlood is offline
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Default Re: Fatigue is not very realistic!?

How is a giant standing, let alone swinging a weapon realistic? Their structure would not be able to support their mass.

A certain amount of abstraction is required in order to make a game about fantasy creatures even remotely plausible. I think illwinter has done some great work in this regard. Fatigue mechanics, are for the most part consistent, without being dissociative, even when upon deeper examination a certain amount of fluff is required to justify the effect.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 08:25 PM

Knai Knai is offline
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Default Re: Fatigue is not very realistic!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerBlood View Post
How is a giant standing, let alone swinging a weapon realistic? Their structure would not be able to support their mass.

A certain amount of abstraction is required in order to make a game about fantasy creatures even remotely plausible. I think illwinter has done some great work in this regard. Fatigue mechanics, are for the most part consistent, without being dissociative, even when upon deeper examination a certain amount of fluff is required to justify the effect.
There is a matter of what genre conventions are acceptable and what aren't. The square cube law can just be entirely ignored in fantasy, scaling weapons is perhaps more questionable. Moreover, heavy armor being bad in some cases is a serious problem and is dissociative. I have no issue with the scaling weapons personally (it's an abstraction I'm entirely willing to make, particularly given the nightmarish micro there would otherwise be. Besides, if you can enchant a weapon to glow with cold fire, you can enchant it to fit the wielder.), but it makes sense for others to have that issue.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 08:45 PM

Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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Default Re: Fatigue is not very realistic!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBrave View Post
Errrr, OK. Sooooo, if I understand you correctly, when I put a given sword or shield or armor on someone, I need to think that the item is not "absolute" but rather scaled to the size of the recipient.
Well, that's how it works in Dungeons & Dragons anyway Magic items scale to fit the wielder. The alternative would be to craft a "Fire Brand, size X" where X = 1 to 6 ; and screw that. Dom3 is micro heavy, UI unfriendly enough.

Quote:
Hmm, yet it does the same damage to the enemy. I hear what you're saying, but I doesn't make sense to me.
But it doesn't though. Give anybody an Enchanted Sword, and it'll do 9+STR damage. So all other things being equal, the giant will still do way more damage with it than the Markata.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 06:49 AM

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Default Re: Fatigue is not very realistic!?

But the reach of a weapon is the same, regardless of whether it's scaled for a titan or a goblin.
That implies they don't scale.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: Fatigue is not very realistic!?

Giants have a larger mass (each increase of x in lenght gives a x^2 increase in weight iirc), so they expend more energy swinging the small weapons. Everything is simply very tiring for them.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 06:27 PM

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Default Re: Fatigue is not very realistic!?

The way I think of it is that each 'swing' isn't really a swing, but more of a measure of what they accomplished in a set amount of time based on action points and their capabilities.

As such the swinging of the weapon is a minor part of their activity and has less effect on how quickly they tire in a fight compared to factors like how healthy they are (muscle:fat ratio and whether they are elderly), and how heavy their armor is.

For example a big hulking brute might have 1 attack with a big sword, but it takes a lot of swordplay or maneuvering to get that opportunity to swing.

A small lightly armored character wielding the same sword might tire fractionally quicker on the swing, but find it easier to get in close and take a swing.

The only thing that is slightly unrealistic is that a dagger and a huge axe are equally tiring, but the amount of fatigue the actual fatique is over the course of 1 round of swordplay can be rounded down to zero.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 06:16 AM

Admiral_Aorta Admiral_Aorta is offline
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Default Re: Fatigue is not very realistic!?

Lets turn to our expert on the subject of fatigue in fantasy universes,
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