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  #581  
Old April 16th, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

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Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
Some minor things were implemented, and some good ideas were set aside. It doesnt take much looking back to see a distinct difference in the way they were presented here.
Good ideas were set aside because they didn't like the presentation? That's like spending more money on a lower value/quality home because the sellers were more friendly than the unfriendly sellers providing the better home deal.
I work with customers using computer hardware and software all the time in my career and some of them are extremely rude, evil and sometimes what seems like insane... however if they have a "good idea" then the good idea moves forward because it's what best for the software, even if it's from a small cruel customer.
Ask yourself... would a wise king pass the opportunity to strengthen his military simply because he doesn't like the personality of the merchant who can magically enchant their training equipment?
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  #582  
Old April 16th, 2012, 04:50 PM

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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

any plan for the coe3 patch release date?
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  #583  
Old April 16th, 2012, 04:51 PM

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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

whoops, nevermind.
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  #584  
Old April 17th, 2012, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

Quote:
Originally Posted by NTJedi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
Some minor things were implemented, and some good ideas were set aside. It doesnt take much looking back to see a distinct difference in the way they were presented here.
Good ideas were set aside because they didn't like the presentation? That's like spending more money on a lower value/quality home because the sellers were more friendly than the unfriendly sellers providing the better home deal.
I work with customers using computer hardware and software all the time in my career and some of them are extremely rude, evil and sometimes what seems like insane... however if they have a "good idea" then the good idea moves forward because it's what best for the software, even if it's from a small cruel customer.
Ask yourself... would a wise king pass the opportunity to strengthen his military simply because he doesn't like the personality of the merchant who can magically enchant their training equipment?
There is more than one way to skin a cat, NTJedi, and not dealing with rude, obnoxious people is one of them.

I also work in customer service, doing tech support and have been doing so for years. We do have a clear policy: If the customer gets shirty and starts being abusive, they get told once that they can either calm down so their issue can be resolved in good order or they can call again after they have calmed down. If they continue hurling abuse, it's "Thanks for calling, have nice day!" *click* and they can bloody well do the troubleshooting dance from the beginning again and again and again and again until they can behave in a civilized manner. I don't give a damn about whether they have a good idea or not, as soon as I start hearing "F-U you [censored] [redacted] [bleep]!" that's it and it's no different for anyone else at my workplace.

You'd be surprised how well it works, because most customers are quite okay and we do want to help them, but there are limits and if the customers know you won't shy from enforcing them, it will be better all around for everyone. There is no sense in rewarding obnoxious behavior in cases like that.

If Illwinter does not want to deal with constant hostility, that is their prerogative. Like it or not, presentation matters and it really does not take a whole lot more effort to formulate suggestions and criticisms in a neutral or positive manner instead of spewing vitriol.
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  #585  
Old April 17th, 2012, 04:00 AM

Admiral_Aorta Admiral_Aorta is offline
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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

Quote:
Good ideas were set aside because they didn't like the presentation? That's like spending more money on a lower value/quality home because the sellers were more friendly than the unfriendly sellers providing the better home deal.
I work with customers using computer hardware and software all the time in my career and some of them are extremely rude, evil and sometimes what seems like insane... however if they have a "good idea" then the good idea moves forward because it's what best for the software, even if it's from a small cruel customer.
Ask yourself... would a wise king pass the opportunity to strengthen his military simply because he doesn't like the personality of the merchant who can magically enchant their training equipment?
lol at this whole post, but especially the king merchant analogy
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  #586  
Old April 17th, 2012, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

You still make too serious a case. They work, they have a family, and they have a hobby.
THIS is a hobby. There are some things that are fun, and some things about it are not so fun.
People who understand this, go for the fun aspect when pitching.

Seriously, the people who are the worst about this strike me as the people who should most understand it. I get the impression that they also, when confronted with "suggestions" full of insults and dares, would decide "I have plenty to do so no I dont think I will appear to give in to your rants". I know I have thruout my life. Might not have been the smartest thing in the world but it was more satisfying.

IT IS A HOBBY. AND IT IS FUN.
Keep trying to turn it into something else and tell them how to do it so that you dont have to ask nicely. Thats ok with me. I no longer have to water it down to try and get it implemented so you can sit here and rant all you care to.
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  #587  
Old April 19th, 2012, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
You still make too serious a case. They work, they have a family, and they have a hobby.
THIS is a hobby. There are some things that are fun, and some things about it are not so fun.
People who understand this, go for the fun aspect when pitching.

Seriously, the people who are the worst about this strike me as the people who should most understand it. I get the impression that they also, when confronted with "suggestions" full of insults and dares, would decide "I have plenty to do so no I dont think I will appear to give in to your rants". I know I have thruout my life. Might not have been the smartest thing in the world but it was more satisfying.

IT IS A HOBBY. AND IT IS FUN.
Keep trying to turn it into something else and tell them how to do it so that you dont have to ask nicely. Thats ok with me. I no longer have to water it down to try and get it implemented so you can sit here and rant all you care to.
It's not about giving into rants, it's about objectively deciding what's best for the software or in this case the game. As referencing my last example... even if a rude, foul mouthed, snobbish merchant arrived offering to magically enchant training equipment then it's wise to take the merchants offer. Any king or software developer has made unwise decisions when allowing his anger or ego or personality to block "good ideas". No matter how it's delivered... a good idea is still a good idea. Another more simple example would be diamonds... a 2K diamond deep in the mud and animal waste is still extremely valuable.
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  #588  
Old April 19th, 2012, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edi View Post
There is more than one way to skin a cat, NTJedi, and not dealing with rude, obnoxious people is one of them.

If Illwinter does not want to deal with constant hostility, that is their prerogative. Like it or not, presentation matters and it really does not take a whole lot more effort to formulate suggestions and criticisms in a neutral or positive manner instead of spewing vitriol.
It's not about dealing with rants or hostility or rude people... it's about objectively making the best decision when "good ideas" appear. While presentation "helps" it should be a small piece in comparison with the list of good ideas. I would pull a 2K diamond out of animal waste as compared to the 1K Topaz nicely wrapped and packaged. I would hope good ideas would also be pursued with the same wisdom when handling personalities.
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  #589  
Old April 19th, 2012, 06:02 PM

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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

That may be true, but people do regularly make unwise decisions based on how the suggestions are presented. They shouldn't, but they do.

If you want your suggestions to have the best chance, wrap them up all pretty like, don't dunk them in the dung.
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  #590  
Old April 19th, 2012, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log

Quote:
Originally Posted by NTJedi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
IT IS A HOBBY. AND IT IS FUN.
Keep trying to turn it into something else and tell them how to do it so that you dont have to ask nicely. Thats ok with me. I no longer have to water it down to try and get it implemented so you can sit here and rant all you care to.
It's not about giving into rants, it's about objectively deciding what's best for the software or in this case the game. As referencing my last example... even if a rude, foul mouthed, snobbish merchant arrived offering to magically enchant training equipment then it's wise to take the merchants offer. Any king or software developer has made unwise decisions when allowing his anger or ego or personality to block "good ideas". No matter how it's delivered... a good idea is still a good idea. Another more simple example would be diamonds... a 2K diamond deep in the mud and animal waste is still extremely valuable.
So your argument is that any person has done it, but they shouldnt do it, so you should be able to continue insulting them while presenting your ideas? And that means they should read, and consider, and be willing to appear to cave in to your expertise?

Oh yeah. I can see that. That argument would apply to any "they" I know. Unless of course I know them personally. Then of course, I cant think of anyone who would do that at all. Even the wimpiest person that I know who is usually willing to acknowledge that he knows nothing, no I cant even see him doing it if the challenge was made publicly.

Im not even sure if the ones I know who have totally sold-out to the corporate man (which some consider such a pre-requisite that they will argue that case first in order to make the second one)
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