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  #121  
Old October 1st, 2011, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

I would like to answer thejeffs argument but I seem to have misplaced my article.



Anyway, i am not a lawyer but this is how I understand copyright law.

You can not copyright a fictional monster or a race. After all, a monster or race is when you boil it down just a list of attributes. And lists, facts and descriptions are excepted from copyright. If you could i'm sure the Tolkien estate would be even more wealthy than they already are.

You can patent certain facts or lists in some jurisdictions. Mainly the american. (Business method patents for example.) But even then it has the limitation, (i think), that it must be a method to achieve something.

Nor can you copyright a name. You can trademark a name however. But that is something quite different. Not only must you pay for a trademark. It will not prevent anyone from using it unless they use it in ways were a person could be led to believe that it is a wizards of the coast product.

A character can, however, be copyrighted. So Bob the beholder is copyrightable but the beholder race as such is not.
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  #122  
Old October 1st, 2011, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

It is also worth noting that not all legal actions by lawyers mean something was illegal. Ive worked for a law firm and can verify that some cases are taken up just because the other person cant possibly afford to fight it. So the "win" goes to the firm with the most money, not the one that is in the right
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  #123  
Old October 1st, 2011, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

(I know I'm a little late to the party but I don't log in that much...)

I'm super pumped about this news.
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  #124  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
It is also worth noting that not all legal actions by lawyers mean something was illegal. Ive worked for a law firm and can verify that some cases are taken up just because the other person cant possibly afford to fight it. So the "win" goes to the firm with the most money, not the one that is in the right
This is so hard for people to understand sometimes. I'm often baffled by people not understanding how the legal system works.

"You should just sue them". Yeah, good luck with that. Being in the right, and being in the legal right are different things, and getting your legal right is even more difficult.

Offtopic reply btw.
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  #125  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

game looks great
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  #126  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

Regarding the copyright discussion: I really doubt Illwinter or shrapnel is big enough on the market for WoTC to give a **** in this case.

The game looks promising.
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  #127  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker View Post
It is also worth noting that not all legal actions by lawyers mean something was illegal. Ive worked for a law firm and can verify that some cases are taken up just because the other person cant possibly afford to fight it. So the "win" goes to the firm with the most money, not the one that is in the right
This is so hard for people to understand sometimes. I'm often baffled by people not understanding how the legal system works.

"You should just sue them". Yeah, good luck with that. Being in the right, and being in the legal right are different things, and getting your legal right is even more difficult.

Offtopic reply btw.
Indeed!

Business world uses ruse all the time in pursuit of benefit. Saying or writing something does not mean it is so. There are no laws againts general lying, while some special ways of unscrupulous cheating are forbidden. There are, unfortunately, even real companies based on theme "trying-out-our-luck" on copyright field, benefitting on the cost of unaware and ignorant businesses or start-ups.


It really makes me wonder how come so many people are driving with dim-lit torches, just consider general notion of how EULA works. It seems most people have no idea about their own rights as buyers - thinking everything written on EULA would bind a buyer just because its written down in there. One example people still fight over is a typical misconception among mac/PC community that one cant install OS X on PC because EULA just happens to place restrictions on it (or something like that).

But the point is, people and businesses try to make claims without a base - because it might prove profitable, and theres no restrictions how many claims one can make. Only restricting value is the number in your account, and usually the claim maker got more.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
Regarding the copyright discussion: I really doubt Illwinter or shrapnel is big enough on the market for WoTC to give a **** in this case.

The game looks promising.
Common behavior in the business environment is to start caring right after the profit or sales margins reach some indicator. It is most likely even be more lucrative to wait silently and calmly and make the claim far later to maximize the profits - when someone else has first done the footwork.



~ edit ~

too cases more:

just remembered the "recent" Kinect incident, it was covered thoroughly in Wired (US). When that one organization announced a price for who ever would first hack Kinect and publish the results, Microsoft came out too and announced it would sue the hacker. This, of course, cooled down the number of try-outs, but - as we know - it was eventually done. Then Microsoft came forth again and said " just kidding, by the way heres the tool package for Windows-use also."

In my personal experience theres also recent incidence where a guy came to me and said we had written something about him in public, and while it was all true, it harmed his career and, even worse, it was actual malice. He gave me ultimatum that if we were not gonna fix it he would sue us. We reviewed the scriptings and decided to let him sue us - the (pretender)god would decide the truth of it. He never sued us anywyas - but he almost forced us to do something we were not willing to do freely, by just lying he would sue us. (actually, I have got plenty of these over the years, this one happened this summer).
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Last edited by Anaconda; October 2nd, 2011 at 04:50 PM.. Reason: some ad-ones
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  #128  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

Well the conversation has been brought up with Illwinter as have any other points made here.
So we will hope they act safely. But if not, we have all done our job.
Thanks everyone.

Last edited by Gandalf Parker; October 2nd, 2011 at 04:50 PM..
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  #129  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
Regarding the copyright discussion: I really doubt Illwinter or shrapnel is big enough on the market for WoTC to give a **** in this case.

The game looks promising.

Wow, that comment sparked quite a discussion. I just wanted to point out that it's possible the name "Beholder" might cause legal trouble, not that it is certain to cause them. If the devs, or a tester, comes up with a cool alternate name, changing it just in case causes no harm.


Fantomen, I have to disagree with you. Illwinter (and Shrapnel Games) might not be very big, but that doesn't mean they should be prepared to do well. Casual games are big, and while CoE won't be published on mobile platforms, it could do well. Better than Dominions, even - the market audience is much better than Dom3's more hardcore players, and the existing Illwinter fanbase could potentially spread the word rather wide.
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  #130  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:35 PM

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Default Re: Illwinter's next project

Tolkien Estate did ban TSR from using hobbits and balrogs back in the day though, hence halflings and balors.

Also, levitating balls with a huge eye and/or lots of eyestalks have a history of being called differently than Beholder in non-D&D games. Gazer in Ultima, Chaos Spawn in Master of Magic, etc. That's a proven and safe road to go.
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