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Old April 17th, 2012, 11:46 AM

dmnt dmnt is offline
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Default Finnish OOB 6.0

Finnish OOB 6.0

First of all, thanks for the big change between 5.5 -> 6.0 in Finnish OOB. Here are some things I found comparing the OOB to FDF pages and other resources found.

Unit 015 T-55MS
~70 T-55s were upgraded to T-55M in 1989-1992
Instead of active IR they used to equip it seems that a Swedish, passive IR camera was installed in replacement. Also fire control system is valued higher than in T-72 (FC 20 in OOB) of the same era.
Suggestion: possibly replace vision 30 with vision 40 and fire control to 25. I couldn't find another source to back this up, so it's up to you.

EDIT: Turns out that it was passive IR but only night vision, not TI equipment. So Vision 30 is appropriate! However, stabilization / fire control could be updated

Source: Finnish Tank Guild blog post about the history of the tanks: http://hyvarinen.blogspot.com/2007/07/blog-post.html
"Seitsemisenkymmentä T-55-vaunua modernisoitiin 1980-1990-lukujen taitteessa. Modernisoinnin tärkeimpiä osa-alueita olivat ruotsalaisperäinen ammunnanhallintajärjestelmä passiivisine pimeätoimintavalmiuksineen, putken lämpösuojus, T-54-ajoilta palautettu ilmatorjuntakonekivääri ja savu- ja valaisinkranaatinheittimet. Jonkin aikaa T-55M ilmeisesti oli Suomen panssarinyrkki (moderni ammunnanhallintajärjestelmä antoi sille huomattavan edun muutoin tehokkaampaan, kolmannen parlamentaarisen puolustuskomitean suositusten mukaan vuodesta 1984 hankittuun T-72-vaunuun nähden), mutta pääaseen vaatimaton kaliiperi 100 mm ja peruskonstruktion yleinen vanhanaikaisuus johtivat siihen, että T-55-kalustolle ei ole koulutettu miehistöjä vuoden 2001 saapumiserien jälkeen."

"Approximately 70 T-55 tanks were modernized in the late 1980's to early 1990's. The most important replacements were the Swedish made fire control system with passive night vision abilities, the heat protection (?) of the barrell and T-54 era AAMG and smoke and illumination grenades. For some time T-55M apparently was the leading tank in FDF (modern fire control system gave it a significant advantage over otherwise better performing, third parliamentary defense committee's recommended T-72 tank from 1984 and later) but it's modest 100 mm caliber and the old fashioned basic construction lead to abandondment of training new conscripts after 2001 arrivals."

Unit 033 BMP-2FIN
In 2011 FDF had requested offers for midlife upgrade of BMP-2 so it might be on it's way. Anyway 2011 is too early a guess, 2015 is my educated guess. Or then it's pushed back beyond 2020 or even cancelled altogether, depending on financial situation all over Europe.
Suggestion: Push the availability date to 1/115

Source: http://www.eda.europa.eu/EbbWeb/View...?Noticeid=3432

Units 035-037 NA-140 Nasu TOW
Unit class is 19, SPATGM which in the game code causes problems to movement compared to snow vehicles, which have an advantage in mud etc. even when there's no real life difference.

Suggestion: Add a move class Snow Track to be applied in bad terrain such as mud, volcanic ash, snowdrifts etc. if it is not too complicated to do in code.

Unit 070 SS-11 Team
Purchased in 1962, in 1966 FDF already possessed 164 SS-11 missiles.
Suggestion: available from 1/1965 or 1/1966

Source: http://yhdistykset-akaa.fi/reservila...inaari2009.pdf p. 15, latter table: status in July 1st 1966

Unit 093 23mm AAG
23mm ZU-23 was modernized heavily in late 90's. The current FDF page does not have information on AAGs but archive.org still contains information from 2007.

Suggestion: Set vision to 40, Range finder to 22

"Alkuperäinen 23 mm:n tykki on täysin mekaaninen ja sen ansiosta erittäin kenttäkelpoinen ja käyttövarma. Tykki suunnataan ja laukaistaan käsin. Ammunta perustuu tykin miehistön tekemiin näköhavaintoihin. Tykkiä ei voida liittää ulkopuoliseen maalinosoitusjärjestelmään.
-- --
Modernisoidun tykin tulitoiminta perustuu maalista mitattuihin etäisyys- ja kulmanopeustietoihin sekä ennalta annettuihin laskentaparametreihin. Näiden perusteella tietokonepohjainen tykkilaskin laskee ammunnan ennakkokulman. Tykki on varustettu moottorisuuntauksella ja sähköisesti ohjattavalla laukaisulla. -- --
Tähtäinjärjestelmän keskeinen osa on laseretäisyysmittari, johon sisältyy tähtäinoptiikka tähtäyskuvioineen. -- -- Tähtäinjärjestelmään kiinnitetty lämpökamera mahdollistaa pimeätoiminnan."

"The original 23mm gun is fully mechanical and therefore very reliable on the field. The gun is manually targeted and fired. The shooting is based on the crews observation and it is not possible to combine it with external systems..
-- --
The modernized version is based on the measured distance and angular velocity information in addition to pre-calculated parameters. The targeting computer calculates the necessary overhead. The gun is equipped with adjustment motors and electronic firing system. -- --
The central part of the aiming system is a laser range finder which includes the sighting optics. -- -- The IR camera attached to the targeting system allows night time operations."

Source: http://web.archive.org/web/200706300...4&equipment=79

Unit 095 30mm AAG
No information whatsoever found except for the Finnish designation 30 ITK 62. Only 27 units, so possibly not in active use at any point.
Made by Oerlikon, out-of-service date not found. Maybe put it to end 12/99? Now found only in museum Ilmatorjuntamuseo
Suggestion: end date to 12/99

Source: http://web.archive.org/web/200706300...4&equipment=79 (not listed)

Unit 099 35mm AAG Radar
Radar was modernized in early 2000's (let's assume 2003). The modernization included radar and control replacements, added laser R/F, CCTV and IR.

Suggestion: change end date to 12/2002, create new unit with start date 1/2003 with FC 110, R/F 22, Vision 40

Unit 101 40mm AAG
Removed from active duty in the 80's, scrapped in 2000.

Suggestion: stretch the end date to 12/2000

Source: http://www.ilmatorjuntamuseo.fi/page.php?page=tykit

Units 102, 103 57mm AAG / 57mm AAG Radar
Removed from service in 2000

Suggestion: set the end date to 12/2000

Source: http://www.ilmatorjuntamuseo.fi/page.php?page=tykit

Units 167, 168, 169 152mm Field Gun
Scrapped along with T-72s and bunch of other stuff. I believe they're all in fact the same howitzer (all howitzers except 122mm are gone), with modernization types differing.

Suggestion: end date 12/2007

"Year 2007 Finnish military declared 152 H 88-37A howitzers obsolete and now they are getting scrapped."

Source: http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/ARTILLERY6.htm

(Note) Unit 170 152mm Field Gun
Not listed in FDF pages but probably at least stored. Some youtube videos by conscripts show firing this gun in 2008.

Units 190, 191, 192 152mm FG Platoon
See Units 167-169
Suggestion: end date 12/2007

Unit 318 ZP-ZU-23M
see Unit 099
Suggestion: end date 12/2002, new unit 1/2003 with FC 110, R/F 22, Vision 40

Unit 320 ZSU-57-2M
The modernization project was seen as a failure, prototype disassembled and ZSUs removed totally from service in 2006. More Marks
Suggestion: Remove altogether

"Vaunuja tuotiin Suomeen 12 kpl vuosina 1960-1961. Vaunujen käyttö päättyi lopullisesti vuonna 2006."

"Modernisointiprojekti oli aloittamisaikanaan perusteltu hanke, mutta aika ajoi sen ohi. Hanke lopetettiin vuonna 1999, kun Puolustusvoimissa yleisesti luovuttiin neuvostoliittolaisperäisten asejärjestelmien kehitystyöstä. Modernisoitu prototyyppivaunu purettiin vuonna 2001."

"During 1960-1961 12 pieces were imported to Finland. The use of these vehicles ended for good in 2006."

"At the time the modernization project was a well-justified one, but development in FDF overran it. The project was cancelled in 1999 when FDF gave up modernizing soviet era weapon systems in general. The modernized prototype was disassembled in 2001."

Source: http://yhdistykset-akaa.fi/reservila...inaari2009.pdf

Unit 356 T-55M KTM-6
No more in active duty but not scrapped. Tank guild blog post mentioned that they're better built than the T-72s that were scrapped. KMT misspelled in names (multiple units), should be KMT instead of current KTM.

Suggestion: end date to 12/120

Last edited by dmnt; April 30th, 2012 at 05:47 AM.. Reason: More precise information on T-55MS equipment. No TI.
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