OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

[Foodstamp]

Sombre and I had a set to the first 3 days I was on here and asked a question he thought was beneath anyone answering (especially him). Well, not being the backing off type we went at it for 3 pages and then it just went away. To this day I think he is a P***K.

This is exactly the issue I had with the guy. If he felt the question wasn't worthy, not only did he want to smart off, he didn't want anyone else answering the person's question. I cannot even begin to comprehend why it was so offensive to him that people wouldn't join along with his little game and would instead actually try to be helpful to the person.

[Gandalf Parker]

I didnt say one got shafted. Im not doubting the action. What Im saying is that the other 3 seem to have basically volunteered to be banned. And the 4th is apparently not interested. This accomplishes nothing.

I dont want to disparage. But personally I dont see this as an effort by shrapnel to control the forums. I see it as an action which might actually shake loose efforts by others to control the forums.

[GrudgeBringer]

That is my point...they didn't have any real power to do anything but ask for the 'Big Guns'. And usually when that second Cop shows up when you are stopped...someone goes to jail.

[Kheldron]

Originally Posted by Baalz

You just can’t do the equivalent of tossing a community leader in a jail with no (public) trial without expecting the equivalent of riots/protests and considerable collateral damage.

Except imho tossing him in jail would have been a tempban. What they did was shotting him in the head without a public trial.

@Tim Brooks : it actually is the whole point of jail in real life/ tempban in these forums. You give people a chance to redeem themselves.
To say that it would have changed nothing and that they would eventually have done it again and again is to judge someone on mere intent at best.

Well, you write and interpret the rules as you wish (u're the boss after all) but don't expect the community to swallow that easily, especially when the penalty for this is death (of an avatar, but death sentence nonetheless)

The thing is there ARE real people behind those avatars and they react according to what they think is just or plainly wrong, according to the laws in real life.
We can debate for hours on end on the fact that it's no public place and that real life rules don't apply here, it can't be that easy when each and everyone behind the avatars feel it in their bones that it's wrong according to real life standards, OUR standards.

Sorry if I put any more oil on the bonfire but I had to spill my 2 cents. Just like everyone else it needs to come out.

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually it was more like he was being delivered to jail for a minor infraction, and decided to jump the guard who shot him in the head

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

On the other hand, I wouldnt necessarily chalk up the lack of comment by most of the forum to mean they are unhappy with what happened. If anything, I think it might be more reasonable to consider the silent majority to be silent for a reason.

I just wanted to comment on this. I didn't say anything so far, since I didn't have any wise words that were not already said. But, the fact is that I am very dissatisfied by the whole situation and I can't imagine anyone not being.

Basically, the mods should have handled the situation much better. Things that llama and Festin wrote - these conclusions come naturally to me and I am surprised that mods think otherwise.

Originally Posted by Festin

It would make you look more professional, if instead of suddenly (at least from everyone else's point of view) banning people for obscure reasons, you gave a temporary ban and a public warning that such behaviour will not be tolerated, and then, if your warning was ignored, gave a permanent ban. It is as simple as that.

Originally Posted by llamabeast

In my opinion, clearly yes. I'm very surprised not everyone thinks the same thing. The public reaction has been the damaging thing, and I can't imagine anything like the same public reaction to a temporary ban. If multiple temporary bans led eventually to a permanent ban, there would be no outcry because it would have been obvious that it was coming.

[Tim Brooks]

That is my point...they didn't have any real power to do anything but ask for the 'Big Guns'. And usually when that second Cop shows up when you are stopped...someone goes to jail.

GrudgeBringer:

This is not true. The mods can and do have the power to ban anyone they think needs banning. We trust their decisions. In fact they have exercised this right in the last couple of days. How it came about that Annette actually did the banning of Sombre I am not sure. I am under the impression that the Mods available at the time were in total agreement with this.

Let me just say that I am glad it was Annette who did the banning, as she has been called everything from a liar to a prissy self important offendable drama queen. I am glad our volunteer mods didn't have to take the abuse.

On a side note: Are you ex-Military?

Regards,

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by Tim Brooks

Let me just say that I am glad it was Annette who did the banning, as she has been called everything from a liar to a prissy self important offendable drama queen. I am glad our volunteer mods didn't have to take the abuse.

On a side note: Are you ex-Military?

Regards,

Tim, I'm also glad then it was Annette who did the banning (although I'm sorry for all the childish crap insults she had to swallow - I guess that's the kind of garbage can expect from some guys, but I'm sure it still sucks), and not the volunteer moderators.

But then I take it Annette is not a volunteer? Meaning she's getting a paycheck from Shrapnel? Well, maybe that paycheck should include having a somewhat thicker skin, and the ability to shrug of the occasional nonsense from the occasionally troublesome poster.

Hey, I'm not saying she or you need to suck up endless amounts of crap. But you should have the ability to shrug plenty of that kind of stuff off. I mean, you're the Big Shots, right? You're getting a paycheck for this, not like us other clowns with too much free-time on our hands.

That gets back to the whole professionalism argument. Yeah, Sombre was a border-line troll (and maybe Maerlande too, but Trumenator and Frozen Lama also?), and so maybe it was ultimately necessary to get rid of him.

But was how you did it (done by apparently paid members of the Shrapnel organization?) the best way possible? And how does that relate to the following banning of the KotLK Three, anyway?

And, just to talk about trying to keep things impersonal, professional, detached, etc., how does asking GrudgeBringer if he's "ex-Military" have anything at all to do with what we're talking about?

Shrapnel people, I think you should take a giant step back, and give yourselves a 24 hour temporary ban! Collect yourselves! Cool down, and get that detached mentality you sorely need in this situation.

We appreciate hearing your contributions to this otherwise difficult 'situation', but as the responsible, power-holding folks you most certainly are, maybe you can't afford knee-jerk, off-the-cuff replies to what's going on.

[Gandalf Parker]

But if you approach someone on one violation, and they fire off in your face, then it has to step up.
Not doing so would be for what? Because it might piss off some people in the forum?

[thejeff]

I'm still not sure why a temp ban isn't the right step, even when "they fire off in your face".
Maybe they had a bad day. Maybe they were drunk at the time. A temp ban lets the situation cool off and lets them come back and behave if they want to.
Of course, maybe they're just jerks and the ban will wear off and they'll start back up. Then they've been given the chance and you hit them with the big hammer.
As for someone asking for a permanent ban, give them a temporary one. They don't have to come back.