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Old May 4th, 2008, 11:55 PM
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Default Russian weapons v4

Dear Don and Andy, thanks for your big work spent for creation of the last patche for this remarkable game.
Unfortunately in our OOB there are errors and discrepancies. Here all list with links on information sources.

The weapon:

1. The weapon 003 - name M1944 is a rifle has a wrong name, correct name M1930. Name M1944 in Russian army has a carbine.
Carbines in Russian army have not received a wide circulation, such as for example Ak-47 Or AK-74. I would unite them under one name.

english link:
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl03-e.htm
2. The weapon 005 - name AKSU-74 - has the wrong name, correct name AKS-74U.
This weapon is not used by our army special troops. In Russia there are many forces of a special purpose, for example - army specnaz, specnaz MVD (militia), specnaz GRU, etc. In army are the weapon use basically crews, AT and ATGM sections and other. Also this weapon widely uses militia special troops (MVD - OMON) against gangsters. Actually in game spetsnaz with rifles AKS-74U is militia spetsnaz (OMON). But it is wrong - militia is not army formation. Also rifles AKS-74U are not used in engineering parts of Russian army - para pioneers.

english link:
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as03-e.htm

3. The weapon 006 - PPS-43 - wrong range - 150 metres - correct range of 200 metres.

english link:
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg03-e.htm

4. weapons 007 and 008 -AK74 and AK47 -correct name AK-74 Rifle and AK-47 Rifle.

english link:
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as02-e.htm

5. weapon 014 -5.45mm RPK SAW -wrong name, correct name 5.45mm RPK-74, wrong accuracy 28, correct accuracy 27

English link:
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg16-e.htm

6. weapon 015 -RPG-2 -wrong penetration 170mm, correct 200mm.

English link:
http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl01-e.htm

7. weapons 018 and 019 -RPG-7 and RPG-7V -wrong penetration 330mm and 600mm -correct no more 260-300mm and 500mm. Grenade PG-7V and VL -see link (iam have book RPG-7 40 years in arms):
http://www.artillerist.ru/modules/my...oryid_260.html
http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl02-e.htm
http://belostokskaya.ru/weapons_mp/antitank/rpg-7/
http://www.army.lv/?s=1465&id=485&v=1#info
etc.

8. weapon 024 -RPG-18 Myxa -wrong name, correct RPG-18 Muha (transkrip to English)

9. weapon 026 RPG-22 Netto - wrong warhead size, correct 4.

10. weapon 027 and 028 - A series of grenades RKG-3, RKG-3M, RKG-3EM - was made after WW2. We do not have exact data about that in what precisely years these grenades were made, but we precisely know that at last RKG-3EM was penetration 220mm, RKG-3E 170mm, RKG-3 125mm (in game if to approximate 13). With these grenades armed only paratroops and mech infantry.

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...relruchgran/1/
http://army.lv/?s=629&id=105&v=1#info

11. weapon 030 - 122mm M30 L22 - in game it is used SU-122. Su-122 with such weapon were issued in the USSR from December, 1942 till August, 1943 - all 638 pieces have been let out. Quantity SU-122 with such weapon has remained and till the end of war, but already were issued as well others SU-122 with other weapon. I am assured this weapon it is necessary to clean.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%A3-122

12. weapon 042 -120mm 2B Mortar -wrong characteristic, correct -weapon range 142. Correct name -120mm 2B11 Mortar

http://www.artillery-mz.com/en/products/03/120/

13. weapon 043 -RPG-29 Vampir -we think, correct weapon size = 4.
14. weapon 044 -9M918 CM Rocket -correct range 220
15. weapon 045 and 046 - Why such range?
16. weapon 047 -AZP-23-4 CS Gun - This gun the gun clone - number 057 - it is necessary for cleaning. Shilka without a radar can shoot on any purposes, less precisely.
17. weapon 048 -SPG-9 73mm -correct range 1300 meters = 26.
18. weapon 049 -30mm AGS-17 GL - This weapon is better for renaming in 30mm AGS GL. It will probably use for AGS-17 Team and AGS-30 team. AGS-30 weight AGS-30 much easier than AGS-17 differs from AGS-17 that that.
19. weapon 058 - 57mm M1950 Gun -correct range 6000 meters = 120 hexes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-60
http://pvo.guns.ru/s60/index.htm
http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vsk/zak_s-60.html
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/s-60.htm

20. weapon 059 - 2x57mm AA Gun -correct range 5500 meters = 110 hexes

http://pvo.guns.ru/zsu-57-2/index.htm

21. weapon 063 –7.62mm PKT TMG -wrong accuracy, correct accuracy = 24 (length barrel 722mm)

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg07-e.htm

22. weapon 068 - MON Mine - This weapon needs to be cleaned. It is a defensive mine. In game already there are such mines which we buy in defensive missions.

http://www.arms.ru/mines/mon-50.htm
http://tewton.narod.ru/mines/mon-50.html
http://tewton.narod.ru/mines-3/mon-90.html
http://mega.km.ru/Weaponry/encyclop....picNumber=2574

23. weapon 069 and 070 - 14.5mm KPV BMG and 14.5mm KPV CMG - This weapon needs to be cleaned. At tank T-10M 2 machine guns 14.5mm KPV TMG (080 no CMG) and 14.5mm KPV AAMG (056) are used. There are no data about that that on SU-100 the machine gun 14.5mm KPV BMG was used.

24. weapon 072 - 76mm D56TM A -correct name 76mm D56T, aim range 4000 meters = 80 hexes, sabot range 2000 meters=40 hexes.

http://www.rustrana.ru/article.php?nid=741&sq=19,27,64,82,100,606&crypt=
http://armoured.vif2.ru/pt-76.htm

25. weapon 073 - 100mm D10 44 -correct name 100mm D10T Gun -correct range 80 hexes -4000 meters, sabot range 40 hexes.
This weapon and weapon 090 -clone.

http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attac...php?item=14083
http://forums.airbase.ru/2005/12/t36...ye-pushki.html

26. weapon 084 - 73mm 2A28 Grom -error, correct AP penetration = 222.

27. weapon 085 - 100mm BS-3 49 -correct name 100mm BS-3 60.

28. weapon 086 - 76mm D56TM B -correct name 76mm D56TS, aim range 4000 meters = 80 hexes, sabot range 2000 meters=40 hexes, correct AP penetration = 15.

http://www.rustrana.ru/article.php?nid=741&sq=19,27,64,82,100,606&crypt=
http://armoured.vif2.ru/pt-76.htm

29. weapon 087 - 85mm D-48 Gun -correct AP penetration = 19, sabot range = 20.

http://legion.wplus.net/guide/army/ar/d48.shtml
http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...protivotank/9/

30. weapon 088 - 57mm CH-51m Gun -correct accuracy = 20, caliber 80,5.

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...siaartyorbm/5/

31. weapon 090 - 100mm D10T 49 -clone weapon 073. This weapon needs to be cleaned.

32. weapon 093 - 120mm 2A60 Nona -Iam think correct name 120mm Nona-Gun. This weapon is used for many units. But actually it is an ammunition which is used for all by a kind of mortars of type Nona. I suggest to rename.
33. weapon 094 - 122mm D-25T -correct accuracy =12, length barrel 5933mm = 48,6 caliber, correct range 5000meters=100 hexes

http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/isu122/isu122.php
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%...0%A3-122%D0%A1
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%A1-2

34. weapon 097 - 100mm 2A29 65 - Guns 2A19 and 2A29 - from the point of view of game absolutely identical. Correct accuracy 16 = 63 calibres. Iam offer rename - 100mm T-12 Gun.

35. weapon 098 - 122mm M-62 57 -correct name 122mm M-62 T2, This gun was used on tanks T-10M. A gun of high ballistics. HEAT penetration = 450mm, sabot penetration 320mm. accuracy 13 = 53 calibres.

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...siaartyorbm/6/
http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...abrontanki/10/
http://armoured.vif2.ru/t-10.htm

36. weapon 099 - 122mm M-62 68 - I do not have any data that this gun or shells for it were modernised. I think this weapon it is necessary to clean.

37. weapon 102 - 300mm Rocket-CM -wrong range. The weight of head parts of rockets from Smerch - is in limits of 250-280 kg. I think HE penetration and HE Kill - Should be more than 80 and 70. The maximum range of shooting by rockets of 70-90 km. Correct range will be = 255.

http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...h/smerch.shtml

38. weapon 103 - 152mm D20 Gun -wrong name, correct name 152mm ML20S Gun, used in ISU-152, accuracy 7 = 29 calibres, HEAT penetration 25.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%A1%D0%A3-152
http://armoured.vif2.ru/isu-152.htm

39. weapon 105 - 132mm Rocket -correct name 132mm M-13 Rckt, correct range 170 hexes.

http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/bm13/bm13.shtml

40. weapon 106 - 220mm Rocket-CM -correct range = 225 hex -35 km.

http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...ga/uraga.shtml

41. weapon 108 - 240mm Mortar -correct range 193 hex.

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...siaartymmet/1/

42. weapon 110 - 122mm D30 FH -iam offer change name to 122mm D-30 FH, accuracy = 10 = 38 calibres.

http://www.sudden-strike.ru/news/detail.php?ID=4328
http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...rtypolevaya/8/

43. weapon 111 - 152mm D20 FH - iam offer change name to 152mm D-20 FH

44. weapon 114 - 152mm D-1 FH -correct HEAT penetration 250mm.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/152-%D0...%B0_(%D0%94-1)

45. weapon 116 - 180mm S-23 FG - This weapon was delivered for export. For the USSR it has been made only 7 pieces of such guns. 180-mm of gun S-23 were delivered to Syria (in 70th), Egypt, India, Iraq and Somalia. I suggest to clean this gun from Russian OOB.

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...typolevaya/11/

46. weapon 118 - 203mm 2A44 FG -correct accuracy = 14 = 55,4 calibres. Range HE shell = 37.5 km, HE Jet shell = 47,5 km.

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...siaartyorbm/5/
http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...aartysarty/19/
47. weapon 122 - 100mm D10T 60 -iam offer rename to 100mm D10TG 60.
48. weapon 123 - 125mm Gun 69 -iam offer clean AP penetration -not used this shells in tanks.
49. weapon 124 - 40mm GP-25 GL -correct range 400 meters = 8 hex.

http://gunsite.narod.ru/gp25_30.htm
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%...C%D1%91%D1%82)

50. weapon 125 - 9M32 Strela-2 -correct accuracy 50, sabot range 16, range 68 hexes.

http://pvo.guns.ru/pzrk/strela_05.htm#2

51. weapon 127 - 125mm Gun 78 - How to learn that it for shell HEAT = 550mm?

52. weapon 131 - 9M36 Strela-3 -correct accuracy 80, sabot range 10, range 90.

http://pvo.guns.ru/pzrk/strela_05.htm#2
http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...ketcomplex/14/
http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...strela_3.shtml

53. weapon 135 - V-75 Dvina -correct name V-750V S-75, accuracy = 40.

http://pvo.guns.ru/s75/s75_data.htm
http://mvizru84.my1.ru/index/0-10

54. weapon 136 - S-125 Neva -correct name V-600P S-125, accuracy =50.

http://pvo.guns.ru/s125/s125.htm
http://www.raspletin.ru/production/old/s125.php

55. weapon 137 - 9M8 Krug -wrong name, correct name 3M8 Krug, accuracy 140, HE pen and HE Kill = 150, sabot range 140.

http://pvo.guns.ru/krug/krug09.htm

56. weapon 138 - 9M9 Kub -correct name 3M9 Kub, accuracy 140, HE pen and HE kill = 57, sabot range 120.

http://pvo.guns.ru/kub/kub6.htm

57. weapon 139 - 9M37 Strela-10 -correct HE pen and HE kill = 3, sabot range 16.

http://pvo.guns.ru/strela10/strela10_04.htm

58. weapon 140 - 9M31 Strela-1 -correct HE pen and HE kill = 3, sabot range 10, range =83.

http://pvo.guns.ru/strela1/strela1_05.htm#3

59. weapon 141 - 9M33 Osa -correct HE pen and HE kill = 15, sabot range 40, range 180.

http://pvo.guns.ru/osa/osa06.htm

60. weapon 142 - 9M311 Tunguska -correct sabot range 40. May be warhead size = 11?

http://pvo.guns.ru/panzir/data.htm
http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...tunguska.shtml

61. weapon 147 - 9M17 Falanga -correct HEAT penetration 500mm

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...etptcomplex/5/
http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...langa_pv.shtml

62. weapon 151 - 30mm GSh-30K - It is necessary to rename a gun in 30mm 2A72 A/C. accuracy 24, weapon size 6, warhead size 2, he pen 1, he kill 13, ap pen 10, sabot pen 12, sabot range 50, weapon range 80. This gun is easier than 2A42 and for game it almost differs nothing from 2A42, but in this gun we can realise use of a new ammunition 30mm - 3UBR8.

http://www.ar-securitytech.com/guns/ground.htm
http://btvt.narod.ru/4/bmp3mod.htm

63. weapon 152 - 9M131M Metis-M1 -correct he kill = 17.
64. weapon 157 - 100mm 2A29 79 -it weapon clone weapon 097. Iam offer clean it.
65. weapon 161 - 9M117M Kan -weapon size = 1.
66. weapon 165 - 9M114 Kokon -correct he kill = 17.
67. weapon 166 - 9M113 Konkurs -correct he kill=17.
68. weapon 169 - 9M131 Metis-M -correct he kill=17. This weapon concerns to ATGM last generations - I think accuracy it is necessary to make 90?.
69. weapon 179 - 30mm GSh-30 -correct accuracy = 13 -length barrel 1500mm. If gun 30mm GSh-30K -length 2400mm -accuracy 20.

http://www.zid.ru/ru/products/military/gsh30.html

70. weapon 180 - 20mm ShVak -correct accuracy 21 -length variants = 1679mm, 1726mm and 2122mm.

http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/shvak.html

71. weapon 182 - 23mm VYa Cannon -correct accuracy 18 -length barrel 1657mm

http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/vya23.html

72. weapon 184 - 37mm N-37 -correct accuracy =9 -length barell 1361mm

http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/n-37.html

73. weapon 192 -30mm GSh-2-30 -correct accuracy = 13 length 1500mm.

http://www.zid.ru/ru/products/military/gsh30.html

74. weapon 202 - 140mm Rocket -correct name 140mm M-14 Rckt.
75. weapon 206 - Kh-23 Kerry -correct name Kh-23 Grom GM
76. weapon 207 - Kh-25 Karen -correct name Kh-25 GM
77. weapon 208 - Kh-29 Kedge -correct name Kh-29 GM
78. weapon 209 - Kh-27 Kegler -correct name Kh-27 ARM
79. weapon 210 - Kh-31 Krypton -correct name Kh-31 ARM
80. weapon 211 - Kh-58U Kilter -correct name Kh-58U ARM
81. weapon 216 - Kh-28 Kyle -correct name Kh-28 ARM
82. weapon 224 - 76mm Naval Gun –correct range 224

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...artymorarty/2/

83. weapon 225 - 100mm Naval Gun -correct range 214

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...artymorarty/2/

84. weapon 226 - 130mm Naval Gun -correct range 222

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...artymorarty/2/

85. weapon 227 - 152mm Naval Gun -correct range 220

http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...artymorarty/1/

86. weapon 229 - 152mm D20 FH CM -this is weapon clone weapon 111 with ap pen. And ap kill.iam offer clean it weapon.
87. weapon 232 - NS-45 Cannon - This weapon is used on Yak-9K. Yak-9K is a fighter, it is not a bomber. At it arms only this gun and a machine gun 12.7mm. It does not have bombs. Therefore in ours OOB we have suggested to use other planes Yak-9B - They can bear bombs, but they do not have this gun on arms. I suggest to clean this weapon.

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9k.html
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9b.html

88. weapon 234 - 130mm M46 FG 85 - this is weapon clone weapon 115. I suggest to clean this weapon. There are no data about development of this gun or shells for it.
89. weapon 235 - 300mm Rocket - wrong range. The weight of head parts of rockets from Smerch - is in limits of 250-280 kg. I think HE Kill - Should be more than 55. The maximum range of shooting by rockets of 70-90 km. Correct range will be = 255.

http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...h/smerch.shtml


89. weapon 238 - 9M119 Refleks - this is weapon clone weapon 172. I suggest to clean this weapon.
90. weapon 240 - 9M133 Kornet -correct HE kill = 19.
91. weapon 241 - 9M33 Osa-M -correct name - 9M33M2 Osa, correct he kill and he pen 15 and 15, correct range 200.

http://pvo.guns.ru/osa/osa06.htm

92. weapon 242 - 9M38 Buk-M1 -correct name 9M38 Buk, accuracy =160, warhead size 30, he pen and he kill = 70, sabot range 70, weapon range 255.

http://pvo.guns.ru/buk/buk_4.htm
http://www.ump.mv.ru/buk_ttx.htm

93. weapon 243 - 9M330 Tor-M -correct name 9M330 Tor, correct sabot range = 30.

http://www.kupol.ru/ru/AntiaircraftM...Systems/Tor-M1
http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...ketcomplex/12/

==================================

If necessary we can help with translation of Russian links.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: Russian weapons v4

"AK74 and AK47 -correct name AK-74 Rifle and AK-47 Rifle"

Maybe you don't see how ridiculous complaints like this look ??

NO.. obviously not.

And "3. The weapon 006 - PPS-43 - wrong range - 150 metres - correct range of 200 metres"

NO, correct range for SMG's using pistol ammo in this game is 3 hexes max, not 4 and I don't really care what sources you list that say otherwise. You already complained about this previously. Obviously I ignored your recommendation and it's not going to change so if we release another upgrade next year and it's still 3 hexes I supposed you'll include it on the next list as well ?

and "22. weapon 068 - MON Mine - This weapon needs to be cleaned. It is a defensive mine. In game already there are such mines which we buy in defensive missions. "

MOM mine is in the game for the same reason the claymores are in the US and USMC OOB's. Sorry you disagree but I have no intention of "cleaning" it from the OOB.

"89. weapon 238 - 9M119 Refleks - this is weapon clone weapon 172. I suggest to clean this weapon. "

Yes, I'm well aware of the duplicate Refleks. There were other weapon changes that resulted in a number of minor scenario problems which I corrected and issued new versions of . Removing one or the other of those would result in much more serious scenario problems so the duplicate stays.

"weapon 047 -AZP-23-4 CS Gun - This gun the gun clone - number 057 - it is necessary for cleaning. Shilka without a radar can shoot on any purposes, less precisely. "

Yes but it's supposed to represent a vehicle only used against ground targets and if you give it a flak gun it will react to aircraft like a flak gun and when used as a CS it's not supposed to.


Look........ Anyone really interested enough to be concerned that we call and "AK47" an "AK47" instead of a "AK-47 Rifle" will use your OOB and we allow you the space to offer it.

99% of the other players know an AK47 or and AK-47 or an AK-47 Rifle are all the same thing. Worrying if we have a hypen is just a bit too much but thanks for taking the time to do so.

Just because you find a source that says an RPG-2 had 200 mm of penetration ( for example ) doesn't mean I have to accept if I check other sources and find differing opinions I make a design decision and go with that.

I went though most of the list you published previously some things I changed, some things, obviously, I didn't but I will certainly tuck this list away and when I can actually look at an OOB ( especially that OOB ) again without getting a headache I will go though it and anything I agree with I will change and anything I don't , I won't and then next release we can go though this all again.



Don
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Old May 5th, 2008, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: Russian weapons v4

Quote:
DRG said:

MOM mine is in the game for the same reason the claymores are in the US and USMC OOB's. Sorry you disagree but I have no intention of "cleaning" it from the OOB.


This weapon use in game Concrete bunkers and other bunkers. How bunkers use this weapon against strangers units? Throw in soldiers or tanks the opponent?

Quote:

"weapon 047 -AZP-23-4 CS Gun - This gun the gun clone - number 057 - it is necessary for cleaning. Shilka without a radar can shoot on any purposes, less precisely. "

Yes but it's supposed to represent a vehicle only used against ground targets and if you give it a flak gun it will react to aircraft like a flak gun and when used as a CS it's not supposed to.


Than differs for example ZSU-57-2 from ZSU-23-4 Shilka? Only absence of a radar. All other devices at Shilka remained available. Shilka without a radar can shoot on air targets also as well as ZSU-57-2.

Thanks for attention.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: Russian weapons v4


11. weapon 030 - 122mm M30 L22


I have no intention of debating this entire list but perhaps you can explain to us all how the gun used by the SU-122 and the ISU-122 were the same ? Perhaps you have a photo of an SU-122 in service post war with the ISU-122's gun ??

Don
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Old May 5th, 2008, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Russian weapons v4

Quote:
KraMax said:
This weapon use in game Concrete bunkers and other bunkers. How bunkers use this weapon against strangers units? Throw in soldiers or tanks the opponent?
You're getting very tiresome Maxim.

It's used exactly the same way the claymores are used in the USMC and USA OOB. It's there to defend against close assaults. If an enemy unit gets within range the weapon will discharge. YOU may not see the point in it but I will remind you this isn't your game.

Don
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Old May 5th, 2008, 05:59 AM
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Default Re: Russian weapons v4

Quote:
DRG said:

11. weapon 030 - 122mm M30 L22


I have no intention of debating this entire list but perhaps you can explain to us all how the gun used by the SU-122 and the ISU-122 were the same ? Perhaps you have a photo of an SU-122 in service post war with the ISU-122's gun ??

Don
SU-122 Uses a gun 122mm M-30S. On it history SU-122 comes to an end. This gun was not so effective on the big distances for struggle against armour technics of the opponent.

From the middle of 50th years on the basis of tank T-54 chassis it has been developed SU-122-54 with a gun 122mm D-49 - this gun is similar to a gun 122mm D-25T.

ISU-122 Use a gun 122mm A-19. Further this gun modernised also it has take name D-25.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 06:03 AM
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Default Re: Russian weapons v4

Quote:
DRG said:

11. weapon 030 - 122mm M30 L22


I have no intention of debating this entire list...

Don
Dear Don,

We consider that this list needs to be investigated attentively and if necessary to discuss it at a forum.

Best regards
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Old May 5th, 2008, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Russian weapons v4

It would be desirable to wish SP Camo fruitful cooperation with developers national OOB, they deserve that !

Start up even in a year, in new patches we shall see more realism in WinSP.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Russian weapons v4

Quote:
KraMax said:SU-122 Uses a gun 122mm M-30S. On it history SU-122 comes to an end. This gun was not so effective on the big distances for struggle against armour technics of the opponent.

From the middle of 50th years on the basis of tank T-54 chassis it has been developed SU-122-54 with a gun 122mm D-49 - this gun is similar to a gun 122mm D-25T.

ISU-122 Use a gun 122mm A-19. Further this gun modernised also it has take name D-25.

I see. So explain to me why your OOB has SU-122's using the same gun as a IS-2M and a IS-3 and a IS-4 and a T-10 and a T-10B and a ISU-122 in from 1946 to the end of 1954.

Please do provide photos of this version of the SU-122. I would be quite interested in seeing them. You imply thatALL SU-122's had the short M30 L22 gun removed and replaced with the D-25T starting 1946 ???

Prove it.

Don
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Old May 5th, 2008, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Russian weapons v4

Why we in this theme discuss our OOB?

In this theme I have written that from more 600 made SU-122 with this gun, have a little reached the war end. By the Soviet designers of down M30 it has been recognised by unsuccessful for SU-122 and in August, 1943 manufacture SU-122 has been stopped. Also in design SU-122 there were lacks, for example there was no machine gun.

If in this theme to speak about our OOB we never and did not speak that we OOB does not contain errors - the list of changes in it and the found out errors we always published at this forum. We are always ready to discuss errors or discrepancies and to correct them.

I will study a question about SU-122 and if we are wrong in more details, we is made changes to our OOB.

Best regards.
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