Orcs, Elves, and the One Cliché to Rule Them All

[Edi]

I'm not touching Wikipedia, Morkilus. Besides, I'd need to get that book from the library again, I didn't write much more than keywords and went from those. Most of the presentatin was about the phenomenon of why people believed in these creatures and what mechanisms were to blame for it. Hallucinations, imagination, illusion (as a psychological/physical phenomenon) and a couple of others come to mind.

As for names, maahinen would be gnome, the fire spirit I've mentioned above would be just haltia, which is literal for elf. Liekkiö is one fire spirit from western central Finland near the city of Vaasa and those surrounds. Liekki is the Finnish word for "flame", so it's pretty damned obvious. Ahti is a water spirit of the lake, or the sea. It can be used as a generic name, but almost always refers to the pagan god of lakes and the sea, a major power instead of a lesser spirit.

Sorry, can't remember anymore right now, and I need to go to bed. G'night...

Edi

[Zen]

I'm all about more Cthulu. More, more, more.

[Truper]

Zen said:
I'm all about more Cthulu. More, more, more.

Why? So you'll have an excuse to speak in gibberish even more often than usual?

[Endoperez]

Or maybe he has something spesific to look towards:

Kristoffer O said:

What scrying bowl have you been looking into?

Of course, it looks much more promising with
" This gremlin is looking disturbingly like some dead german leader" left out... (this was post Post#294834 , if you want to check the thread out yourself).

[B0rsuk]

You are all wrong.
The point is not so much that Dominions nations are original. They aren't really that fresh. Anyone who had even minimal education can see that (syntax: X is heavily by Y)

C'tis - ancient Egypt
Marignon - medieval Spain
Machaka - african tribes in general
Man - Britannia ? (I'm no expert on this one)
Mictlan - It's the name of Aztec god(ess) of rain. Also name of Aztec underworld.
Arcoscephale - ancient Greece
Pythium, Ermor - Rome
Jotunheim - vikings
T'ien Chi - China
...

And it's not like these are light influences. In many/most cases you can google/wikipedia for things like Pazuzu, Tien Chi hero names, Mictlan, etc.
That's not the point, as I said.

The point is that execution is superb. Modern fantasy-themed games feel just that - modern. Because they are modern. There's no depth in them. Literacy is something normal - even expected in modern fantasy-themed game. How often are you (your character, or any other) unable to read something in such games ? Was literacy really that common thorought history ? I wouldn't say that. Even today LOTS of people are illiterate in China/India. And not just there.
In most medieval/ancient societies woman warriors would be ostracized - not to mention melee combat DOES require physical strenght and endurance. Women aren't allowed to join military in most of today's world countries.
Or something different: Bear Claw talisman. It says it's a very manly talisman, and a woman wearing it would probably have a low voice, or even grow a beard. How cool is that ? It's exactly the kind of thing you hear about if you learn a bit of history, and exactly the kind of thing you don't see in modern fantasy games. Another thing - modern games are pretty much atheistic, or monotheistic. There aren't many gods in them - or no gods at all. Oh, you may see a few in AD&D/Forgotten Realms/Whatever games, but they usually look as if people didn't care about gods. Tendency to "produce" gods is very natural to humans, but very rare in fantasy games. How many temples are there in Baldur's Gate ? There are some, but they are there mostly to allow healing (hmpf). You don't see people attending to them, and there's no ceremonies. No shrines in people's houses. If you see a ceremony it's most of the time some kind of evil cult you have to stop from sacrificing someone etc. You never see sailors refusing to sail because stars aren't right. You rarely see someone refusing to act because it's against his faith/beliefs. You don't see women washing clothes in river. No people gathering around campfire to tell stories. No farmers, even herders are rare.It's as if these people don't eat anything. I suppose they're all still hunters and fruit/nut collectors. No people chanting while seeding the land/harvest.
Heavy sacrasm: but at least they can read and write.

Summary - towns/communities in modern fantasy games don't look like societies at all, they're bunch of people and random buildings thrown together. They're very inhuman and artificial. Modern fantasy games negate history and sociology. Dominions draws deeply from history. It makes nations feel real, because everything is there for a reason and fits. Not because designer had to fill some empty space.Not a cut&paste work. Dominions' developers made sure all pieces connect.

[boltcutter]

"Here I definetly beg to differ. Halflings and hobbits are two widely different things. I think. Never read JRR's books, just watched the movies."

Back in the late 70s, before there was an "advanced" D&D, they were called hobbits until the Tolkien estate told them to cease and desist. Likewise with "treants"/Ents.

As far as putting them into Dominions- I agree, you can get that stuff anywhere. When I found out that the Illwinter guys played a lot of Ars Magica, it revealed why a lot of things in this game are so solid.

Or maybe that's my pro-Ars Magica bias showing through.

[Endoperez]

The name "hobbit" is used only in official Middle-Earth products (movies, books, games, stickers, The Other Ring, whatever). Others, like most games, use some different words. Hobbits were called Halflings even in Tolkien's books (in Gondor and Rohan, IIRC) and that name is used in few places (like roguelike Crawl), they are Hurthlings in ADOM (another roguelike game), and Hoburgs in Dominions.

Mind you, many of the Halflings/Hoburgs/Hurthlings/Hobbits are very different. Some of the Hs are cunning survivors, other curious little thieves, some small people that can withstand much more than their size would allow, etc. Most of them are good at throwing and slinging rocks (this was mentioned in the books' prologue), although the Dominions Hoburgs don't have increased precision IIRC.

And I agree with B0rsuk: the execution is what matters, and that's what has made Dominions the masterpiece it is.

[Zooko]

You fool! Hoburg Crossbowmen are DEADLY.

[shovah]

thats only because they are sooo cheap, individually they arent that good

[Cainehill]

Umm. The price doesn't matter : decent accuracy crossbows are potent. 7 gold just makes it easier to amass large crews for Wyrm-plinking pleasure.