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Old October 6th, 2004, 12:03 AM

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Default A timely editorial...

...from an admittedly unlikely source.

As we, the Space Empires community, prepare to make the transition to 3D, here is some food for thought.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/

I am referring to the editorial of October 4th, by Tycho, entitled, (ahem), "The Utility of Rare Erotica".

Uhh, nevermind the erotica part, that's about some weird game. Keep reading further down. He has some interesting things to say, like...

Quote:

There are two branches to the discussion, one of which focuses on the mad rush to convert perfectly solid, genre defining 2d games into three dimensional piles of dog****. The urge must just be overwhelming, because the results of this process are almost universally reviled.

and

Quote:

As it turns out, just because we can manipulate 3D images doesn't mean that they are the ultimate solution for every task, in terms of the gameplay or in any other kind of terms. There are still marvelous possibilities inherent in the 2D plane which we have not discovered yet, and maybe we won't ever, because that third dimension draws a man, like a nipple.

and, on the (hopefully) less-relevant-to-SE5 subject of realtime versus turn-based...

Quote:

I'm quick on the draw and I can push a button in sequence with the best of them. But there is something natural and sensible and universal about a turn-based system that allows for absolute, explicit position, clear delineation, and genuine decision making. Maybe that seems quaint to you, but dividing the sequence of play into turns has a validity that isn't diminished by advancing technology

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Old October 6th, 2004, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: A timely editorial...

Sigh not this again... with the ability to pause the combat and issue orders while paused, and a feature to auto pause after X seconds (user defined), real time combat plays 99% the same as a well designed turn based system (note that SE4 combat is a very poorly designed turn based system)... Click festing, gone. Button mashing, gone. Twitch factor, gone. Strategy, rich play experience, preserved.

Also, keep in mind that the combat in SE5 will be in 2 dimensions. It will just have 3d models, rather than 2d bitmaps.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: A timely editorial...

This kind of 3d program adds lays of problems to games. Just look to Rebellion and BOTF for proof.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: A timely editorial...

in retrospect Rebellions (and I hope we both mean the same Star Wars game) graphics weren't that great, perhaps there were limitations, but I thought the 3d battles were the best bit. I used to love building fleets of Star Destroyers and Super stars to fight the rebel fleet (Once I found the #^%$@ things ). Although the fighters weren't much fun, except to hold off rebel raids. That however was real time. I don't know how different the turn based fights will be.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: A timely editorial...

SE5 will have real time combat.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: A timely editorial...

Quote:
Imperator Fyron said:
SE5 will have real time combat.
Not really - how would you do PBW then?
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Old October 6th, 2004, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: A timely editorial...

100% as you do it in SE4. You do not have any control over the explicit execution of combat in PBEM mode, so it does not matter at all how the combat is executed (from the playing perspective, not balance, realism, logic, etc.). It is only an issue for single player mode, where the AI won't yell at you for pausing to much, and possibly hotseat or TCP/IP multiplayer, depending on how that is going to be handled... At worst, each player would just have to agree to a set amount of time between auto pausing. Of course, if TCP/IP in SE5 is handled like it is in SE4, the game will play 100% identical to a PBEM mode and it will only be an issue for hotseat...
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Old October 6th, 2004, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: A timely editorial...

Combat will be processed on the server side. But it will be a RT combat.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 07:46 PM

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Default OK, be honest...

Honestly now, how did you folks feel about the 3D work in Starfury?

Admittedly, I played only the demo, but I was rather disappointed. It just seemed a bit clunky and awkward to me.

My idea of a near-perfect 3D interface in an RTS space game (and cringe if you will, Starfury is an RTS game) was the first and original Homeworld.

Granted, granted, SE5 is not Starfury, but I am just citing it as an example.

BTW, I also played and loved Wing Commander: Privateer, which was obviously a major inspiration for Starfury.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 07:48 PM

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Default Oh yes, and....

Homeworld was a truly 3D game. Units moved and fought in 3 dimensions, X, Y, and Z, bay-bee
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