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Old October 18th, 2004, 03:26 PM

rdouglass rdouglass is offline
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Default Re: this Strategy must be broke

Just my $.02...

Yeah, I do that too; build my shells and send 'em to a waypoint with training facilities and baseyards full of repair components (the more of both the merrier), but I do it for another very important (at least to me) reason - I'm able to use the population better IMO.

See, if I build just shells at lightly populated SY worlds (I build at least 1 in every system as I'm sure most do), I can move all my population and concentrate them at a few huge worlds where I can build those WarpPoint ships (and other very expensive ships) at those full huge planets more quickly. Population is a very significant modifier for planet-based Ship Yard production; probably the greatest in most Mods.

Yeah, build the shells and retrofit while they're training seems a good efficient use of the time to me and I can build those expensive ships in far less time earlier than most others.

If you look at this, think about it a few minutes, and try it out, you will see exactly what I mean....

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Old October 18th, 2004, 04:23 PM
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Roanon Roanon is offline
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Default Re: this Strategy must be broke

Will said:
Sorry, I didn't follow the first part... I said you end up paying 10% above the original ship cost when you do retroseries on a half-cost shell, and you're seeming to say that the 10% is wrong, then using my exact same argument to say it's 10% more and "not worth mentioning"... odd.
20% on a 50% retrofit is 10% of the total costs, rather than 5% as I calculated before using 10% on 50%... yes, a bit confusing these numbers

And again, you DO have extra maintainence. As soon as the ship is built, you're paying half maintainence on it until you do the retrofits, then you're paying full maintainence after the retrofits while you repair. While it's not a huge cost in itself, multiplying it by several ships over a period of time makes it more of a drain than standard build methods.
Of course, this strategy only works if you have enough repair capacity... As retrofit happens first, then repair, you should never ever have any unrepaired ships wasting maintenance. As with all good strategies, poor execution can easily turn them into a bad strategy... Experiment a bit, and you should find the optimal way. Like with training:

Time spent on training is only relevant if all your ships are built at a training centre, [...]
Again, knowing the turn sequence is important . Training happens after movement. So you build, retrofit, move, train and repair in this order in a single turn. First training does not have to happen on the planet where the ship was built, but on the first planet they move to after being built. I call them pre-training centers. I usually need about 1 per 3-4 sytems, and from all of them it is one turn to one of my 2 main training centers (warp openers are your friend).
When using FQM, you can have 2 moons on a planet and that makes an excellent training center, 9% per turn. 2 turns, and with the 3% from the pre-training center you have 20%. In these 2 turns you can do 1 or 2 more retrofits, of course have enough repair bases ready to repair the retrofits instantly.
If you have too little repair capacity, and a constant flow of new ships, this creates new unrepaird ships every turn. And you end up with an ever increasing amount of unrepaired ships, and this IS costly. Takes a bit calculation about what you are going to produce with how much repair neded per retrofit so you can plan the number of repair bases accordingly.

The advantage of this strategy is it increases the effectiveness of your shipyards. I very often encounter the stage where you need capacity but building more shipyards is not an option - I usually build a shipyard on every planet. And see others build lots and lots and lots of expensive maintenance-costing ineffective starbase shipyards. Probably while complaining about the high costs of oh-so-inefficient retrofitting
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