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  #11  
Old May 18th, 2008, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

That's the issue at hand, she caused a suicide which in itself is only a crime committed by the person committing suicide. However, the mental anguish and criminality of the acts leading up to that end event are the actual crimes.

Providing a false name to a subsidiary of News Corp, imo, doesn't make a crime. Now if it's to local/state/federal authorities, then yes. In fact, cyberbulling itself would already be covered under existing laws dealing with mail and wire crimes.
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  #12  
Old May 18th, 2008, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

Quote:
MrToxin said:
Quote:
Mindi said:
I can understand the slippery slope theory, but I really think it's because of the circumstances surrounding what this woman did to a 13 year old girl, who eventually hung herself because of it, is the only reason they are going after her. This is one area where the law needs to catch up with technology and since it hasn't yet, they had to find a law they could charge her under. If it wasn't on the computer what she did would be considered stalking, harrassment and child enticement.
Stalking, harassment, child enticement, yes...but, if you look at it, nobody really "causes" a suicide. Suicidal people are, in a lot of ways, ticking time bombs. If you don't defuse them, they eventually blow up.

While I agree with you that the only person who can "cause" a suicide is the person who takes their own life, an adult should know better than to torture and play with the emotions and mental state of a 13 year old girl. That's such a horrible age to be going through where everything seems magnified and you're going through all sorts of emotions for the first time that you don't really know how to handle. Everything that happens to you at that age seems like the end of the world.

I also think that our current laws should be enforced and should cover these issues..but the local law enforcement there swore there was nothing they had on their books that they could charge her with and have stick. I think they said part of the problem comes down to jurisdiction because technically the crime is wherever the server is located and not where the people are located. So then it is a multi-state issue....which got the feds involved....which leads to what can they charge her with on a federal level...etc.
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  #13  
Old May 18th, 2008, 05:21 AM
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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

I would have charged her with conspiracy to commit murder. The intent was to get the girl to kill herself, and the women made comments to that effect over her communications on that despicable myspace network.

I also believe that myspace is tacitly responsible for allowing this kind of harrassment to go through their system unabated. If it is against their policy, then they are responsible for enforcing said policy.

As for this use of illegal access to a secure server crap, well that one will be for the Supreme Court to decided. I can almost guarantee you that that is where this issue will ultimately end up.
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  #14  
Old May 18th, 2008, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

They can't read every message that goes through MySpace, Atrocities.
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  #15  
Old May 18th, 2008, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

Maybe we should outlaw the internet. There, another useless thing for the politicians to do! That would be their answer, the "EASY WAY OUT" instead of actually addressing the problem.

AT, if they read every message, there would some liberal group crying foul about privacy. Again, soooooo much concern about privacy and NONE about lives!
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  #16  
Old May 18th, 2008, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

Everyone dies. People do mean things to other people. Ends don't justify means - there are consequences, especially in a legal system where precedent becomes law.

Trying to illegalize everything bad that happens is ignorant, lazy, destructive thinking.
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  #17  
Old May 18th, 2008, 04:39 PM

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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

Quote:
MrToxin said:
Stalking, harassment, child enticement, yes...but, if you look at it, nobody really "causes" a suicide. Suicidal people are, in a lot of ways, ticking time bombs. If you don't defuse them, they eventually blow up.
I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. If someone is feeling somewhat suicidal, but not enough to go through with any form of self-harm, then along comes this person who probably meant a lot to this girl (even if 'he' shouldn't have), insinuates 'himself' into her life, then intentionally crushes her, intending to inflict as much emotional pain as possible upon her, then yes, that can "cause" her to commit suicide where she might not have otherwise.

In my opinion, this was murder, premeditated murder. She knew exactly what sort of torture she was inflicting on this child, and while it wouldn't cause everyone to kill themselves over it, it was a foreseeable consequence, and this ***** should be locked away for the rest of her life.
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  #18  
Old May 18th, 2008, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

Saying myspace is responsible for the messages sent by its users is like saying that since a rock fell from space and hit my car the FAA/Norad/Airforce/Nasa is responsible for repairs.

It just ends up leading to frivolous lawsuits.

And enforcement would end up bankrupting many sites on the net or leading to the closure of public communities on the web.

Conspiracy to commit murder wouldn't stick since the target committed suicide. You might be able to play with assisted suicide laws. But in reality, it's the method used to obtain the effect that is illegal.

Cyberbullying easily falls into Hazing laws.
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  #19  
Old May 18th, 2008, 06:59 PM

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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

So are you saying that if I grabbed someone, stuck them in a tiny dark room for 10 years, and gave them a loaded gun which they then proceeded to shoot themselves with, that wouldn't be classified as murder, even though I would have been manifestly the cause of their death?

I know it's an overblown example, but I think it gets the idea across.
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  #20  
Old May 18th, 2008, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: OT: We Are All Now Criminals Under The Law

Quote:
Renegade 13 said:
So are you saying that if I grabbed someone, stuck them in a tiny dark room for 10 years, and gave them a loaded gun which they then proceeded to shoot themselves with, that wouldn't be classified as murder, even though I would have been manifestly the cause of their death?

I know it's an overblown example, but I think it gets the idea across.
That's a terrible example. In fact, that's even radically different. I'm not even going to argue with you on either point because comparing messaging somebody on MySpace to locking somebody in a room for ten years with a gun is borderline insane.
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