MP: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. Game Over. Supplicants Triumph!

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

The only other mod I really ever entertained using was the End Game Diversity Mod due to the benefit it might bring to Children of Crom in particular.

I'm not either for or against it. It seems interesting, but I like an idea of mod-clear environment, too. So OK either way.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

Failing any objections from DrP or his team, I am allowing a single rainbow pretender for the merc, by adding the Aquatic Archmage to their available pretenders.

I am also changing the pretender path restrictions.

The new pretender path restrictions will be as follows:

Unlimited magic in team's Primary Path, level 6 max in a teams Secondary path and/or any paths native to your pretender, and level 3 max in anything else.

This does several important things: It retains the primacy of the main paths, allows me to keep all currently available pretenders choices in the game, including the Wyrm, and lets you give your natively single path pretenders more magic in the secondary path. I will update the teams&themes.pdf shortly to reflect this.
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We need one more player to captain a team, whether it be replacing me or taking Usurpers. I have sent a PM'ed proposal to Chris. If he accepts, well and good, if not, that is fine as well.

Algae and Co, I am always willing to switch over to your team and captain the team if need be. It works for me just the way it is. . If your willing to step up again (I know you have great courage) that is not a problem. Advisors can't hurt for any team. Neither could more alternates. We've some time yet, so no emergency.

Sept, as I said in private, I do not want to change the terms of the pretenders to this.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Sept, as I said in private, I do not want to change the terms of the pretenders to this.

I am strongly in favor of this new rubric, but as I say, if DrP is against it, and we are sure you will actually be in the game, reverting back may be considered.

Another type of mod I would consider is one that makes all of a teams pretender choices available to every nation on that team. So in all cases (but especially vanheim, jotunheim, Mictlan (if chosen)), a nation such as jotunheim for instance, would be able to choose a Moloch, fountain of blood, black bull, etc as a pretender.

This may require quite a bit of work, lines of code, and all pretenders so designed would need to conform to the standard number of design points as used in-game on awake pretenders and to the path rubric as well to keep things fair, so as an alternative, if DrP feels he wants a certain generally available team pretender for Jotunheim or Vanheim, or in the case of Mictlan, then we can likely handle it quite easily via a simple map edit, known only to Gandalf (will have to confirm with him on this). This is optional of course (DrP seemed OK with the choices he had), but if he wants something already available to his team in leiu of the Green Dragon, like a Moloch for Van or Jottun, it can be probably be handled without the need of a mod file in such limited cases.

For game 3, if themes are used, I will likely create a large mod that make all team pretenders available to all nations, and also perhaps adds a few non-standard pretenders to each team for fun . This idea was expressed earlier by DrP, but I think a dry run using only standard pretenders is the best way to go first. Many commander type units in the game may in theory be used as pretender for either AI or human players (but there lots of balance considerations to think of).

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

Another type of mod I would consider is one that makes all of a teams pretender choices available to every nation on that team.
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For game 3, if themes are used, I will likely create a large mod that make all team pretenders available to all nations, and also perhaps adds a few non-standard pretenders to each team for fun . This idea was expressed earlier by DrP, but I think a dry run using only standard pretenders is the best way to go first. Many commander type units in the game may in theory be used as pretender for either AI or human players (but there lots of balance considerations to think of).

Yes, it may be a good idea. I don't remember whether it's possible to remove standart Pretenders, though. Still, in any case if we make theme game mod, we would be able to increase price of standart ones enough to make them effectively unavailable for wrong teams.
Another thing: I think that for future games it would be better to make merc team of some nation which has spies and/or assassins available.

[Gandalf Parker]

For future games Id suggest that the mercs be handled by something like the Watcher, DungeonMaster, or Debug mods which were created for that. To allow an all-game-view and all-game-impact. They can easily expand the game allowing many new random events, messages, punishments, rewards,

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

For future games Id suggest that the mercs be handled by something like the Watcher, DungeonMaster, or Debug mods which were created for that. To allow an all-game-view and all-game-impact. They can easily expand the game allowing many new random events, messages, punishments, rewards,

That's another thing entirely. Something like current Legendary Ordeals game, with Pantokrator giving tests to his subject gods to decide which one is worthy his throne. Mercenary nation shouldn't have such abilities, just enough various options to make it worthy for other factions to cultivate it.

[Septimius Severus]

I am giving the Usurpers and their captain the option (as an incentive to keep R'lyeh as planned) by offering the following 4 extra subtereraean lake provinces in these locations:



These 4 provinces would be: 202, 191, 80, and 83.
3 of them are forest, but since these are underground lakes, there's nothing saying there can't be forests or trees on top as well. They would be connected to the merc but not with corner lakes directly and would not be assigned a VP.

R'lyeh's cap can be connected to one of these (whichever is closest).

This placement and connection with R'lyehs cap offer many advantages to both the Usurpers and the merc and everyone in general:

1. It extends R'lyehs offensive capability and range as well as the utility of its aquatic only units.

2. It doubles the mercs sea neighbors thereby giving a needed resource boost to the merc cap. And also extends their operating range.

3. It enables R'lyeh to reach the strategically valuable corner lakes via an aquatic only route, eventually, but at the same time ensures that R'lyeh would need to go through the merc cap to do so (and pay a suitable toll(s)).

4. The placement is evenly spaced, halfway between the center and corners but allows enough room for all to navigate around them, particularly the AI.

Again, I will provide these as an incentive to stick with the Usurper nations as originally planned including R'lyeh.

[ano]

They would be connected to the merc but not with corner lakes directly

Why not connect each one with the nearest corner lake and (maybe) not connect corners directly to the mercs cap?
Corners connected to the merc cap automatically mean the mercs will always suffer severe dominion problems unless they take something like 9-10 and that's not good IMO. In general, I like the idea of these small lakes.
And R'lyeh cap may be connected to the corner province this way

[Septimius Severus]

So just leave 4 connections with the merc cap near the center? And arrange em like the spokes of a wheel emanating from the merc? Like an giant X? Connecting only at the hub? Like this?



That works good as well. Maybe even better. The merc must have some access to all these locations though, as it facilitates carrying out its job and gives its units greater mobility.

The only downsides with your suggestion is R'lyeh would be limited a bit more, would need to purchase passage to get to 3/4's of them via direct sea route, rather than the 4 they would have unrestricted access to in the previous example, but if R'lyeh is not used, no problem then. If they were connected up any other way, R'lyeh would be be able to take the VP locations and pop up in your backyard. R'lyeh could also block the merc from access to one of the corners.

The merc would also not got the extra cap resource bonus.

[Septimius Severus]

At this stage all starting positions have been filled. Alternate and advisor positions (if desired) are still available though. So if you are a noob, or intermediate level player, or a vet in the case of advisors, I welcome you. No noob will ever be allowed to be critized or belittled for lack of knowledge in any of my games. You have my guarantee on that going forward. If it happens please bring it to my attention.

The captains (of which I am one) are finishing up agreement on the the path rubric.

Chris, is apparently not going with R'lyeh, so Mictlan will be used as a substitute.

If people like the idea of those extra lake provinces soley for the benefit of the Merc, I will keep them in connecting them according to Ano's suggestion. Otherwise I won't bother with em.

We hope to be getting underway shortly, Gandalf must finish up creation of the AI, and I have a few changes to implement to the map. Gandalf has indicated he might want to use a few other units in the game as surpises either as pretenders or commanders since he is not necessarily limited that much. I have agreed, provided they meet the general Air/nature theme of AI team, they follow the path rubric, and they are not any of the other teams or factions pretenders.

Endgame diversity mod? For it, against it? Should we wait for the new version set to be released shortly?