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  #1  
Old May 5th, 2010, 04:52 AM
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Clap OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

Hi,

I’m following with growing alarm the escalating turn of events following Sombre’s ban.
I want to make a statement or an appeal or something in between.
Please take into account that I only call what I see. I’m not on IRC, I don’t know about past grudges between players and I may have missed one or more nuances. Still, I gave it an earnest try to read the related material available here.
Yet, my views my upset some ppl, so plz bear in mind that I’ve no intention to insult/hurt/mock etc. Peace and love brothers

So.
I’m personally saddened by the ban and consequent bans. I think many ppl here feel the same. I believe Sombre et-al are overall positive guys. They contribute a lot to dominions and the community. They are free spirits and not shy about expressing their opinion, if at times bluntly.
That said, I also generally like the way the forums are managed. I appreciate Shrapnel’s and the moderators efforts in keeping them civil. They had a tough call on their hands and they made a decision – and I believe it was made in good faith and not out of evil, power crazed mania.
I respect the moderators and am grateful for the way the forums are maintained yet I do believe they didn’t handle the situation as well as they should or could have. As I see it, instead of disarming the bomb they chose to nuke it, as if raw power could make issues go away. It’s a mistake ppl of authority sometimes make, yet trying to fix a problem using raw power usually ends up breaking things.

And while I’m upset with the bans I’m totally against labeling the mods/staff as evil and lashing at them and at the forums. Sombre’s supporters, I believe your cause is just but you shouldn’t take the destructive path – spamming threads & picking up fights. This only makes your cause look worse. You can channel your protest into an effort to fix what was broken, not break more things.
Speaking of which, the thread “: Managing Communions - the sombre challenge.” was plain negative. It looks to me like Verjigorm was at a disadvantage due to cultural or language gap and the way he was slugged there is just ugly. That’s not what I want to see these forums turn into.
Nor should the “I’ll make your life a living hell” comment merit much fuss. It looks to be clearly good humored, although it may not have been all that funny or called for or helpful.

Bottom line: A lot of ppl are upset now. You have a right to be but don’t take it out on this place and the players that don’t have a clue.
Chill out. Talk 2 the banned guys instead. Since they are mostly positive guys I don’t think it should be impossible to un-ban them if they’ll want back.

I suggest a good ending to this episode:
Shrapnel, please allow the banned guys back. Give them a temp ban on the condition that they agree to abide by the rules - although they’ll likely always push the limits, they are overall positive and an important part of this community, we don’t want to lose them.
Sombre et-al, I hope you’d reconsider not wanting back here. You’re not punishing Shrapnel or the modds by doing that but rather the vast majority of dom players who frequent here.
Let’s all open a new page
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Old May 5th, 2010, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

Good post. I mostly agree with you there, mending bridges would now be good for both sides, the community that are angry and the Shrapnel staff.

There will though still be people who don't want to do this due to their anger.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 05:21 AM
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

'I walk a lonely road, the only one that I have ever known....' (from the song of a singer, I guess)

You peacemonger should beware, neutrals and pacifists are a prime target during civil wars !
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Last edited by Humakty; May 5th, 2010 at 05:28 AM..
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Old May 5th, 2010, 05:48 AM

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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

Quote:
Originally Posted by WraithLord View Post
I’m not on IRC,
Ah, that crazy drug known to cause berserking madness and uncontrollable fits of trolling.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

The problem is, because there are so many unresolved issues and questions regarding this whole "incident", it's going to take a long time to fade away.

Regarding the Sombre banning, all we've got is a classic, 'he said, she said' situation. You can go to the new 'exile annex' forum, and hear Sombre's side of the story, but I would find it hard to think that he'd be saying anything that didn't fully support his position. And as far as Shrapnel's side, who knows what to believe? We've just been given some rumor and innuendo of a past pattern of bad behavior.

But since Shrapnel is unable or unwilling to share documentation, who's to know the 'truth'? Unless and until Shrapnel shares those records, there are always going to be some people who doubt their sincerity. If they can't share that information, they better get used to some people being left with a bad taste in their mouth over the issue that started this whole imbroglio.

And that's another thing, it's well beyond just Sombre now. Three more people got banned, and several others have expressed their intention to pack their bags and leave for good. Was it really necessary to let it come to that?

We could all see from the Long Knives thread that those three were extremely upset. But the situation was allowed to escalate, they were given "extra rope" (a phrase I've heard a few times recently), and sure enough, it was just enough to get themselves hung.

Where are these temporary bans I've heard of? If the KotLK Three had been forced to take a time out and cool down (for 24 hours, for a week, a month, whatever), things would never have gotten to the point were a perma-banning was called for. Sure, some people would have said Shrapnel was just silencing dissent, but the situation that resulted from allowing their anger to boil over and get themselves banned has to be worse.

So now a lot of people are going to be left with bad feelings over this, and that's going to linger. Am I going to quit visiting this Forum? No - I had no personal connection with any of the banned, so I'm not taking it personally. But you know what, this whole thing has given me a bad vibe - coming here now feels a little bit like filling up on petrol from a BP station Will that feeling last? Probably not, but it's still a damn shame.

Are there any lessons to be learned in all this? Well, for the visitors here, I guess the lesson is watch what you say (and you know what, being civil is always a good idea), and beware of crossing the Shrapnel moderators, as they have all the power.

As for the Shrapnel powers-that-be? What can you take away from all this? Because you do have all the power. But remember what that old guy told Spider-man - with power comes responsibility! You've got to be the Big Man in these situations, and not act like a petulant child. When someone is trying to drag you down to their level (either a genuine trouble maker, or just someone who's really upset), you need to rise above it. You should stay cool, calm, and especially detached. Because if you start taking things personally, you're just lowering yourself, and that's when someone is likely to get unnecessarily hurt.

Now you folks and Shrapnel don't have to do anything. You've got the power to do as you see fit, or whatever strikes your fancy. But you know what? In my opinion, the way this whole situation has been handled has made Shrapnel seem very unprofessional. I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way. Continue as you are, and that feeling will likely spread - and as business people, do you really want to get a reputation for not being professionals?

Just my two cents.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

A pity - about Frozen Lama and Trumanator.
Let's hope they will get back in time.
I don't really know the third guy, but he was very vocal.
You are right about enough rope to hang themselves. It would be better probably if moderators started warning earlier. Still, I'm not sure that there was a good solution to this situation. Not using force also could lead to escalation of the problem. And using it just after initial ban would also cause much uproar - as a possibility, guys who were angry at the moment and got warnings would probably react with something like: "Well, ban me, I don't care, damn Nazis!"
Let's wait and see. I'd say a result would probably occur in about a week. Then I would speak about what moderators actually achieved in short term (later bans). As for initial ban - I don't think it will have much effect on forum itself. Probably we won't see some new Sombre mods - but this should be a reason enough to do something ourselves. Better than crying out in any case.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

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Originally Posted by Wrana View Post
And using it just after initial ban would also cause much uproar - as a possibility, guys who were angry at the moment and got warnings would probably react with something like: "Well, ban me, I don't care, damn Nazis!"
Yeah but if somebody is angry and shouts this, you don't have to ban him. He got the infraction. Point was made. (Infractions are public right?). If he keeps his abuse up, just give more infractions. At 100 it is a tempban.

Shouting that you don't care is not a reason to get a ban, nor infractions. (The Nazi part perhaps is but that is a heat of the moment thing, and not something that would bother me as a mod).
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Old May 5th, 2010, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

The point is, you stop them from shouting to much in the first place with a temporary ban - they can't call you Nazis and demand to be banned, if they can't communicate with you for a couple days or whatever. If they come back after that time-out still breathing fire, well then, Shrapnel could say, "we tried being reasonable, but they wouldn't have any of it!" It certainly would look a lot better than the summary dismissals we've had so far, IMO.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

*JOKE* Well, brutal executions have at least one good point going for them : the guy won't come around complaining. *JOKE*

Well, being a mod or admin on this forum surely fills up some of their time. At least we're sure they do their job, and not squat lazily in Haway. Rather a good point for them.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

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Originally Posted by Humakty View Post
*JOKE* Well, brutal executions have at least one good point going for them : the guy won't come around complaining. *JOKE*
Brutal executions also have a downside to them. Making people martyrs. Also, they work well to make the people angrier and more rebellious than they would otherwise been!
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