MP Giants and Dwarves [MA; CBM ; Noob friendly] [Full 12/12] - Page 34

earcaraxe · #**331** May 6th, 2012, 03:58 AM

i also would like to thank u for participating, regardless of this issue.

thanks!

parone · #**332** May 6th, 2012, 04:38 AM

bandar and shinyu, just so you know:

asking about on the boards, lego and earaxe often play in games with one another and never attack eachother. EVER. there is a bit of conjecture that they may be the same person(personoally, i don't think so)

since, earaxe, you tried to organize a 3 on 1, and apparently join games with sham alliances with other people, i must surmise that you are an absolute coward. you are afraid to fight anyone 1 on 1 on the off chance you might lose, and back this up with phoney negotiations and lies.(personally, i think in a war with me, you'd have won if you had gone at if fairly, but hey, we'll never know, will we)

but i'm gonna give you your dream game here, buddy. i won't go ai. that pesky ai has a tendency to buy new units and 'gasp' move armies around. so what i'm going to do for you is, just send in my 2h whenever i get a turn. see the beauty? since im not scripted you should suffer near zero casualties! sure, this will ruin the game for everyone else except you and tien chi, but hey, who cares? that was your intention from turn one, right?

Zywack · #**333** May 6th, 2012, 11:44 AM

Well...

While it certainly was a cheap move on Oceania's part, I can't really see it as unfair. The rules on the first post states that diplomacy is non-binding in this game: While it's in my nature to do things by the book, we always have to keep in mind that others might not do so. 2vs1 or 3vs1 is the name of game from what I read about this game: 1vs1 is a rarity, and they usually don't stay that way for too long.

For example (maybe I'm too paranoid), but I kept expecting T'ien Ch'i to attack me after the Bandar Log war started: Even though we had good relations and that I knew it wouldn't be anything personal, I was the obvious target in my mind. Already involved in what would definitively be a costly war, and without a big economy, and it made sense geographically speaking. So even though I would have obviously been utterly doomed, I did have some plans in place to fight them off as best as I could and make them pay.

Since T'ien Ch'i decided to attack you instead, Oceania really had only two choices: Either they attacked T'ien Ch'i or they attacked you, sitting around doing nothing simply meant that whoever won the T'ien Ch'i/Ulm war would be the undispusted winner of the game. If I was in their shoes, what I would have done is to attack whichever of the two side was the stronger one: Winning the war alongside the weaker side meant that they could be of relatively equal strength to the other nation, whereas if they sided with the stronger nation they'd be doomed since that nation just got even stronger. As far as I can currently see, Ulm is stronger than T'ien Ch'i right now (That may be innacurate however since my spy network isn't as good as hoped). If that's correct, I believe that Oceania's decision was the right one strategically speaking and I would have done the same in their place with the only difference being making a proper declaration of war and less sneaky dealings.

I mean, I've had excellent relation throughout the game with both T'ien Ch'i and Ulm. My long term plan was simple: If I win the Bandar Log war, I attack whichever side is currently winning the Oceania-T'ien Ch'i-Ulm war (while following NAP terms of course). I both consider you to be good neighboors and I would hate to fight either of you, but that's the only way I could have even a remote chance of winning the game. Heck, I even consider Bandar Log to have been a good ally and a pleasant neighboor (and a great opponent), but I had to declare war on them to both survive short-term against the temples (Upon seeing what happened my fears were definitively warranted) and it also made sense long-term for the territories and the corner if I wanted to stand a chance. I still feel a bit bad about attacking them since they had been my most helpful neighboor, but it is a strategy game where the goal is about being the only winner in the end. (I don't feel bad about beating Machaka though since they've been a jerk since the start)

So what I'm saying is... If you were indeed the strongest nation on the map, Oceania's decision to attack you is the only one that makes sense to them if they want to win the game. The way they did it is certainly cheap and not very honorable, but they were within the rules to do so. If T'ien Ch'i and Oceania decide to do a joint victory together and that they've already done so multiple times in other games, then I can see it being a concern. If that's not the case, then I can only see this as Oceania's only viable strategic option to win the game (The method might have been really sneaky, but the war declaration in itself makes sense).

legowarrior · #**334** May 6th, 2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parone

bandar and shinyu, just so you know:

asking about on the boards, lego and earaxe often play in games with one another and never attack eachother. EVER. there is a bit of conjecture that they may be the same person(personoally, i don't think so)

since, earaxe, you tried to organize a 3 on 1, and apparently join games with sham alliances with other people, i must surmise that you are an absolute coward. you are afraid to fight anyone 1 on 1 on the off chance you might lose, and back this up with phoney negotiations and lies.(personally, i think in a war with me, you'd have won if you had gone at if fairly, but hey, we'll never know, will we)

but i'm gonna give you your dream game here, buddy. i won't go ai. that pesky ai has a tendency to buy new units and 'gasp' move armies around. so what i'm going to do for you is, just send in my 2h whenever i get a turn. see the beauty? since im not scripted you should suffer near zero casualties! sure, this will ruin the game for everyone else except you and tien chi, but hey, who cares? that was your intention from turn one, right?

WTF Parone! This is my second MP game in Dominions ever. And I'm currently in only 3 games. And I've never played with Earaxecar before. Ever!. I don't even know what other games Earaxecar is in, but it isn't TheAscensionWars or HappyKatanakka, the only others games I am in.

So, as you can see, your facts are wrong. And as others have stated, being #1 puts a giant bulls-eye on you. Congrats on being seen to be on top. Now you have to pay for it. This isn't AI, this is MP, and I'm sorry you are having making trouble with that transition. Please don't blame us for your folly.

Groundworm · #**335** May 6th, 2012, 02:32 PM

I'll respond with a longer post later, but for now... Zywack- to say that our battle (which I was confident I would win) was devastating to my war effort is a massive understatement. Very well played.

parone · #**336** May 6th, 2012, 04:09 PM

good luck all. perhaps we will all meet again in better circumstances.

Strength and Honor!

Zywack · #**337** May 6th, 2012, 05:08 PM

To be bluntly honest, in the future I don't think I'll be joining a game you are a part of, Parone. I genuinely liked you throughout the game, but this pretty much destroy the game entirely. You might be having a setback but that's part of the game.

Machaka stayed until they had 1 single commander left. Abyssia stayed until they were 2-3 turns away from being game over. C'Tis stayed until the very end. That's what was agreed upon at game start and it's also what I was intending to do myself. You are going to quit when you have a massive army intact and around 1/3rd of the map? That just screws up the game entirely for everyone else involved.

Everyone here spent a ton of hours on this game, and all that time just gets invalidated by that single action. Is that what you are going to do every time things start not going your way?

parone · #**338** May 6th, 2012, 05:20 PM

as have i. the game is ruined for me as well. it is your perrogative to not play again with me, and i respect that. so you know, i am currently in two other games, in the midgame, where i am losing, and have no chance, and am playing them to the bitter end. not only do i not mind losing, i am actually enjoying both those games very much.

it's not winning and losing. it's choosing not to spend my leisure time with someone who openly boasts about being proud of accompishments made through lies and deceit.

quite frankly, i get enough of that in real life. and i can't avoid it. here, i can.

as i said. good luck, whether we cross paths again or not.

earcaraxe · #**339** May 6th, 2012, 05:47 PM

if the reason for u leaving the game is that i said i was proud of deceiving u, then how is it possible that the first time u said u quit the game happened in post #325, while my statement about that was 330# (=later)?

Zywack · #**340** May 6th, 2012, 06:07 PM

So... What's the plan now? We give the game to Oceania and call it a day?

T'ien Ch'i is mostly blocked by Ulm's army and will have to pay heavily to get through, Shinuyama and Bandar Log are stuck in war with no possibility of reaping any benefit from Ulm quitting, and Oceania has full uncontested access to the entire Ulm empire that they can consume in extremely short order.