Why I won't be buying the game - detailed report

[Fingers]

Tanelorn said:

Well, as we all know, both those games flopped big time, and I don't think there's another MOO killer in the works anywhere. I would consider going back and re-assessing your original project. There's quite a large crowd of people who like that kind of game and wish there was a game that took everything they loved about them and put it into one bag.

In my opinion, the market is ripe for a 3rd party Master of Orion clone with 2005 technology.

Well, we know that now but didn't then... In any case if MOO3 flopped after all that money and effort it makes the whole thing even riskier, and it doesn't help that any advances in technology translate directly into extra development time. Weird Worlds took us over a year and a half to complete (as opposed to six months for SAIS) and that's probably too long already.

[Phoenix-D]

Tanelorn said:
Well, as we all know, both those games flopped big time, and I don't think there's another MOO killer in the works anywhere. I would consider going back and re-assessing your original project. There's quite a large crowd of people who like that kind of game and wish there was a game that took everything they loved about them and put it into one bag.

Space Empires V. There's also a couple other 4x games in the works, like Sword of the Stars.

[Arralen]

Obviously, no-one understood. Ok, silly me.

Stars!, Stars Supernova
Backed by Interplay. Died in beta due to differences between devs and Interplay. No further development, as the devs don't get their rights back: Fans offered to invest >$100.000 t get the game finished, but no chance.

Moo2,Moo3
Atari killed it by forcing a beta release.

Imperium Galactica 2, Imperium Galactica 3
IIRC it was turned into some horrible space shooter with different name, because shooters make more money then complicated 3x games. Bet this was not the devs choice.


Space Empires 3, Space Empires 4, DominionsPPP, Dominions 2
where all made by a single dev, or two.

I don't know if Aaron hired some artist or programmers for SE5 - or if there where other causes to go for big brand shelf space.


Actually, when I fist fired up WW I thought: This game, these guys have potential for a big space 3(4?)X title.

[Shadowcat]

Imperium Galactica 2, Imperium Galactica 3
IIRC it was turned into some horrible space shooter with different name, because shooters make more money then complicated 3x games. Bet this was not the devs choice.

This is tangental to your point, but you actually have this one completely backwards.

Nexus: The Jupiter Incident is the titled you are thinking of, and it was indeed to be "Imperium Galactica 3" at one stage in its development. However the IG3 name and associated gameplay changes were more or less foisted onto the developers by the then-publisher and IG property owner CDV. The game did not start out with any connection (or real gameplay similarity) to the Imperium Galatica series, and once they were dissociated from the IG name the developers reverted to the style of gameplay they had intended to make all along.

[Tanelorn]

Fingers said:
Well, we know that now but didn't then... In any case if MOO3 flopped after all that money and effort it makes the whole thing even riskier, and it doesn't help that any advances in technology translate directly into extra development time. Weird Worlds took us over a year and a half to complete (as opposed to six months for SAIS) and that's probably too long already.

From what I know based on reviews and online friends, MOO3 didn't flop because it was an impossible task, it flopped because of bad game design and publisher deadline pressure. I think that saying "if MOO3 flopped after all that money and effort it makes the whole thing even riskier" is a very dangerous approach to the reasons why games fail to succeed.

I think if there was better leadership in MOO3's design and development, and they weren't under such a time crunch, many of us here might still be playing it!

I'm not trying to say: SAIS and WW are bad games and your original idea was the way to go. SAIS and especially WW are great in many ways. But I also dearly wish that an improved MOO2 was out there or under development, and that it would incorporate all the features that many of us SC2 and MOO2 fans have been wanting to see in a modern MOO clone.

I really do think that a MOO clone with some strong game dev intelligence behind it would be sucessful and fill in a gap that has been widening for years now. The more recent attempts: MOO3 and Imperium Galactica just didn't have what it takes.

Don't you have a deep desire to see your ideas for your MOO clone come to life, after all that work and planning?

[James Sterrett]

Don't forget Galactic Civilizations and the upcoming Galactic Civilizations 2, in your quest for a MoO-beater.

Speaking as a big fan of MoO 1, MoO 2, and SEIV, GalCiv is in the exalted position of a game I don't dare start playing, because if I do, I can't stop. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img]

[Fingers]

Tanelorn said:
Don't you have a deep desire to see your ideas for your MOO clone come to life, after all that work and planning?

In a way, yes and no. I like these games and it'd be cool to have one with all of our ideas in it. But what makes SAIS and by extension Weird Worlds special is that they're not clones of anything that someone else made.

The only way I can play Weird Worlds is by creating Weird Worlds... But if I want to play a 4X space strategy game there are already many to pick from, some of them very good. So I don't *have to* make a new one. It's not just a competitive market thing even though I often use that as an excuse, but also a feeling that there should be a good reason for the new game to exist. You need that just to stay motivated.

[Tanelorn]

How about a small side project that is mostly about space combat using the WW combat system but with more detail? Maybe a bit like Sid Mier's Pirates! game but in space...

[Zogu]

I wouldn't compare MoO-like games with WW. I mean... I play WW when I have 30 minutes to spare and I want to space out. I play MoO-like games when I want lose my social life, my girlfriend and my job.

[Zogu]

ps: MoO3 was deadly boring.

ps(2): I agree with some of the criticism. Everybody would love WW to include (rip off?) some of the best features in SC2's combat system. This game had more variety in the ship designs and features. And more features in combat such as: higher speed, more inertia, gravity (planet), asteroids... this added some depth to the combats.

ps(3): Exploring planetary surfaces was very cool in StarFlight II and in StarControl II.