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View Poll Results: ANONYMOUS POLL - Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?
Yes - Fair's fair, the board can't forbid a user AND profit from their past contributions. 15 37.50%
No - These mods & maps actually belong to Schrapnel Games, not the authors. 17 42.50%
Abstain - I don't want to be banned form the boards for choosing the wrong answer. 8 20.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old December 13th, 2010, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

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Originally Posted by PriestyMan View Post
its not an independant view. its umm.... clevelands. just like archae said.
That's your opinion and my opinion is different.
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  #42  
Old December 13th, 2010, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

no, that's the simple fact, and your opinion is different.
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  #43  
Old December 13th, 2010, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

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Originally Posted by archaeolept View Post
no, that's the simple fact, and your opinion is different.
You truly are pretending and nothing will change.
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Last edited by NTJedi; December 13th, 2010 at 11:24 PM.. Reason: details
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  #44  
Old December 13th, 2010, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post
They do, and you're obfuscating the point.
"Works are in the public domain if they are not covered by intellectual property rights at all."
It would take long years in a sympathetic court to yield even a slight acknowledgment of IP rights on a mod. Especially a mod of one copyrighted game to add the units of another copyrighted game to it.
Creating a mod of copyrighted IP in another copyrighted IP does not an will never ever release anything in the public domain.

I'm not obfuscating the point. You are using public domain wrong. Sure the creators of the mod do not gain the copyright for the mod. But neither is the mod released to the public domain. Public domain is never the issue here. Unless the creator of the mod (a mod which is not based on a third party IP) released it specifically to the public domain. Which nobody ever did as far as I could recall.

So my point stands. You misused public domain.
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  #45  
Old December 14th, 2010, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

Muse, Soyweiser is absolutely right in his comment about what public domain means. Just accept that you are using the word wrongly in this instance and move on.


On the subject of the opening post:

If somebody wants to retain the options to do what they wish with any mods, maps or other work they may produce, even in the event of being banned, or due to dislike of certain forum policies (such as Shrapnel being granted certain rights to anything posted on the forums), then host them elsewhere under your own control and use external links.

I use that approach myself, not because I live in expectation of being banned or the like, but because I like to retain full control over what I do. It also makes cleaning up after obsolete versions much, much easier.

All the stuff I've posted here on the forums, such as the various analysis about site frequencies, the FAQ and such, I still own the copyright to those posts. Just that by posting on the forums, I've agreed to let Shrapnel use them as they see fit and they do. At the same time, by posting them in a public venue (publicly viewable by others), that's used up the first publication rights right there.

That's why even if I wanted e.g. the FAQ removed, which I don't, it would stay there. It's too useful for everyone and I've granted permission to Shrapnel to do what they will with it.

On the other hand, if I wanted to yank the Dom3 DB, the Faerun map, the event list or otehr stuff in my Dom3 hosting folder, there's nothing anyone can do to prevent me. Not that it's going to happen, but I have the option. I put too much work into a lot of that stuff to just hand control over it to anyone else. Anyone can download the fruits of my work and use them, but they can assert no control over what I do with them. They could even repost them should I remove my work. And since I've posted that stuff in a publicly accessible place (even though it is under my control), it pretty much follows that they are not important enough to me to put them under lock and key.

If I do consider something so important that I want to keep full control of it all the time, it's never going to get posted anywhere online in the first place.

Once you let the genie out of the bottle, you won't be able to stuff it back in. It pretty much applies to everything posted on the net, including mods and other things posted on this forum.

As far as making mods using 3rd party IPs (such as Warhammer, LotR, The Witcher or whatever else), that's more or less covered by fair use and the non-commercial nature of the mods. The mileage may vary according to what the law says in a given jurisdiction, but more or less it's not going to ruffle feathers.

But the second anyone tries to actively make a buck by charging for such derivative work (unless it is the original copyright holder), you can bet that the knives will come out so fast you won't even see the first blows.
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  #46  
Old December 14th, 2010, 04:01 PM

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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post
Authors do not have the right to 'delete' their work from the public domain, whether or not a library they dislike profits from it.
Depends on your country.
In France they definitely can. Except for software for some reason. The code de la propriété intellectuelle goes so far that there are some rights that cannot be legally transferred (moral rights), and these include the right to no longer allow publication of one's work.
Quote:
Art. L. 121-4. Nonobstant la cession de son droit d'exploitation, l'auteur, même postérieurement * la publication de son oeuvre, jouit d'un droit de repentir ou de retrait vis-*-vis du cessionnaire. (...)
So basically anything written in France cannot be published without the author consent, even if there was a paid contract for that. Problem being the paid contract being broken, the author will have to pay an indemnity to the publisher if he wants to stop the publication, and he has to give this same publisher priority should he allow publication og his works again...
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  #47  
Old December 14th, 2010, 04:55 PM

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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser View Post
Creating a mod of copyrighted IP in another copyrighted IP does not an will never ever release anything in the public domain.

I'm not obfuscating the point. You are using public domain wrong. Sure the creators of the mod do not gain the copyright for the mod. But neither is the mod released to the public domain. Public domain is never the issue here. Unless the creator of the mod (a mod which is not based on a third party IP) released it specifically to the public domain. Which nobody ever did as far as I could recall.

So my point stands. You misused public domain.
Saying something vehemently enough does not make it true.
You have no point, because you have no evidence, like many other comments made both about the game mechanics and otherwise.

Releasing a work to a publicly available website without meeting the criteria for Berne Convention attachment (originality, derivative-work copyright) places it in the public domain. Period.

Anyone accessing the website can take, modify, repost, and make collages with the mods here without even needing a lick of Fair Use justification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDiCesare View Post
In France they definitely can. Except for software for some reason. The code de la propriété intellectuelle goes so far that there are some rights that cannot be legally transferred (moral rights), and these include the right to no longer allow publication of one's work.
The 'droit de repentir' even in the case of a fully copyrighted work is under the purview of the Court, which can and has denied the right when its exercise would be abusive or was requested under 'disingenuous motives.'

In France, it would be technically legal for the great-grandson of an original author to request the cessation of production, distribution, and display for, say, a book such as The Lord of the Rings.
Will it be denied? Yes. Cultural facet.
Further, it is only enacted at the payment of damages to all owners of the property rights. If the property rights have lapsed into public domain, the damages would be considered infinite.

The 'moral rights' of France even apply to architectural plans, and I must say, the actual court cases for their invocation on those are very amusing.

Last edited by Muse; December 14th, 2010 at 05:19 PM..
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  #48  
Old December 14th, 2010, 05:24 PM

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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

I think it would be for common benefit if mods are stored on a separate custom-tailored resource (like TES/Fallout3/DAO/etc-nexus, NWN-vaults, Mount & Blade repository etc) rather than forum threads. Authors have full control over their submissions, files are stored in special repository instead of being deleted from rapidshare, full interface with screenshots, comments, sorting by mod types, ratings etc. And forum grudges stay in the forums.
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  #49  
Old December 14th, 2010, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post
You have no point, because you have no evidence, like many other comments made both about the game mechanics and otherwise.
What do game mechanics have to do with this? And you don't provide any evidence either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post
Releasing a work to a publicly available website without meeting the criteria for Berne Convention attachment (originality, derivative-work copyright) places it in the public domain. Period.
So if I make a mod based on the IP of both dom3, and warhammer and release it here it is in the public domain? I doubt it.

(And you could always argue that the creation of the mod itself constitutes the creation of a original piece of work).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDiCesare View Post
Anyone accessing the website can take, modify, repost, and make collages with the mods here without even needing a lick of Fair Use justification.
If I where to post a mod here in which I used my own sprites, and my own fantasy nation you couldn't. I would still have the copyright on that.
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  #50  
Old December 14th, 2010, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Should banned user mods/maps/etc be deleted from these boards?

I agree with Nordlys here, it would definitely be great. It would also allow modders from different forums to store thir works in a common place and link from wherever they like.

As for this thread being an echo of the Sombre spectacle, yeah of course it is. There will be more for years to come I suppose. That's not very surprising when you f*ck things up so badly. It's not a matter of where the blame lies, just plain old cause and effect.

Another event to be written in the community history along with norfleet, monkey PD, NaV sillyness, setsumi etc... It will be continuosly referred to and bickered over.

I don't mind, I think it's rather entertaining.
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