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  #171  
Old May 3rd, 2022, 12:31 AM

Karagin Karagin is offline
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Default Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Not saying I believe anything this guy has posted or even claims, but now according to his reports we, the US, have given the Ukrainians M270 MRLS along with all the other stuff.

https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/uk...2-885784cdc601
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  #172  
Old May 3rd, 2022, 01:28 AM
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FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
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Fallout Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Highly unlikely that the Ukraine either has or will have the M270 MRLS/or M142 HIMARS or both.

For one by law, they have to be reported and still approved for foreign sales by the State Dept. before POTUS approves the sale. He's not going to risk any "political capital" at a time when Congress as of yesterday just took up what I believe will be the largest weapons package to date that the President has thus far asked approval for. He has bi-partisan support for this bill which will put us at ~4.2 billion dollars since the war started.

Also, you need to realize 1. There's been no discussion on that equipment with exception that President Zelinsky had just asked about these weapons maybe a week ago.

Well I can ensure any reader that there's NO WAY we can "dumb down" those systems in a week, ship them and have them trained on these platforms.

I believe Mr. Cooper has overestimated our capabilities.


Here's what I think they'll receive and it's hot off the wire from yesterday. TAIWAN will be receiving the M1A2T (The 1st tanks we've sent them in 25-30yrs.) (Along with this tank we also entered the M1A2P with both in their respective OOB's. The Australian M1A2A however at this time is not in the OOB because their MOD has stated it won't reach IOC until sometime in 2025.) but also slated for delivery was the PALIDAN M109A6.

That however isn't going to happen at this time though I suspect we might send them possibly the M777A2 as a consolation prize. Those M109A6 will be "dumbed down" though how many are ready to be shipped based on delivery dates that were set for Taiwan is unknown.

The article does mention production line issues so this could mean we need to replenish our own equipment, or the Ukraine will be receiving more M777 pieces as another option.

"The first eight howitzers for Taiwan were scheduled for delivery in 2023, 16 in 2024, and the last 16 in 2025. These howitzers form part of the first arms package for Taiwan to be approved by the Biden administration since it assumed power in January 2021."

Here's the read...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...sian_army.html

NETHERLAND confirms...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html

NORWAY will send ...
The M109A3GN 155mm (Updated version from the German M109A3G.) which was in the process to come out of service this year or just did this past year. The Netherlands will retain the more highly updated M109A3GNM 155mm (14) (For now.) and newer K9 155mm (24).

Based on the following looks like we'll be doing our training of the Ukrainians in Germany ...
But first, "These efforts build on the initial artillery training that Ukraine's forces already have received elsewhere and also includes..."

Translation, they're using our M777.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...in_germany.htm


Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; May 3rd, 2022 at 01:45 PM..
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  #173  
Old May 3rd, 2022, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Let me know when one is actually seen in Ukraine

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html

Denmark plans to donate Piranha III 8x8

No word on when but within a year the UKrainian OOB is going to be a dogs breakfast of military equipment
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Last edited by DRG; May 3rd, 2022 at 08:32 AM..
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  #174  
Old May 3rd, 2022, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH View Post
The article does mention production line issues so this could mean we need to replenish our own equipment, or the Ukraine will be receiving more M177 pieces as another option.


Translation, they're using our M177.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...in_germany.htm


Regards,
Pat
Pat.......WTF is a M177 ?
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  #175  
Old May 3rd, 2022, 01:51 PM
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Fallout Re: SP and SPAA Developments

All now fixed in my last post as M777.

Tracking all of this, thank God at least these systems use basically the same ammo-generally.

Sorry for error.

Regards,
Pat
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  #176  
Old May 3rd, 2022, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Ya had me confused with that 177. Thinking I missed something earlier

but of course....... M777 IS what's in the OOB along with its own Icon
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  #177  
Old May 3rd, 2022, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Well, there was an XM-177 (or CAR-15), but I doubt sending Vietnam era carbines would be of any help to Ukraine...:P
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  #178  
Old May 3rd, 2022, 06:28 PM

Karagin Karagin is offline
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Default Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeraaa View Post
Well, there was an XM-177 (or CAR-15), but I doubt sending Vietnam era carbines would be of any help to Ukraine...:P
Do they still function? If they do, then they are weapons to put into the fight, so they would get used. At this point Ukraine can't be choosey about what they get, they are begging for help.
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It's 'On Full Kits' and sound 'Board Ships,'
We're sending you where you can die." - cadence of the Line Marines (Jerry Pournelle)
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  #179  
Old May 3rd, 2022, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karagin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeraaa View Post
Well, there was an XM-177 (or CAR-15), but I doubt sending Vietnam era carbines would be of any help to Ukraine...:P
Do they still function? If they do, then they are weapons to put into the fight, so they would get used. At this point Ukraine can't be choosey about what they get, they are begging for help.
I think Ukraine is in dire need of big guns and AT weapons, small arms are probably better than nothing but will not change things much.
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  #180  
Old May 9th, 2022, 09:54 PM
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FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
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Fallout Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Alright, a little background before the story. The U.S. M777 155mm made "heads turn" when it was fielded. It was arguably one of or the lightest field howitzer in the world being highly mobile giving it a "shoot and scoot" capability with a very high rate of fire.

So that remains unchanged today but, that was the M777 that shot conventional artillery rounds.

So, while the EXCALIBUR precision munition was starting evaluation and testing the U.S. fielded the M777A1. The difference (Main) was it mounted a digital FCS vice an optical one. It would only be fielded for no more than 3 years.

EXCALIBUR was coming online so the M77A1 had to be modernized too the M777A2 by conversion and production of new systems.

The M777A2 had a modernized version of the digital FCS that added the software that the GPS guided EXCALIBUR needed to be fired. There's more to than this, but it's important for accuracy to "know where you are" the rest I'll leave to you to figure out, but EXCALIBUR and similar advanced munitions have a very, very, very small CEP.
https://www.military-today.com/artillery/m777.htm


So, can you guess who now operates the M777A2 with EXCALIBUR?

Ukraine, I submitted this weapon (M777A2 w/EXCALIBUR) for Australia, and they were the first export customer to receive
it. And it appears so did CANADA which is sending more (And for Don, we're replacing them with new ones.)

I've always pointed out that nomenclature is important when it comes to equipment. A prime example is the F-104D added to the USA OOB. Because it was the first version to carry the weapons it is equipped with in the game and the type in the "real world".

Also, the game has advanced as well since I submitted M777A2 to the USA/Australia OOB's. We debated the EXCALIBUR principle, and I got the name. Which was fine then as now.

Point is now we have an operational NLOS and I would very respectfully suggest what really is the difference now?

Except a whole lot of work. So there's the rub.

But if the day should come, ever the optimist, I'll keep submitting the proper nomenclature and be factually correct and see where the game might be down the road.

To be clear not everyone got the M777A2, I'm sure INDIA only received the M777.

Gotta requal on my weapons in the morning so I'm going to enjoy the rest of the night and check my PELTOR noise cancelling range headphones (Wished I had them years before I got them. Such a difference.) and look forward to a bonus night home.

Regards,
Pat
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